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A girl shifting from "I want you" to "I don't want you" within 60 seconds

I just had a phone conversation that went roughly l like this:

She: I want you ... I want a relationship and you need to do ABCDEF

Me: Let's be clear. So you want a relationship, and you want me to do ABCD? Let me tell you a story. You walk in a deanship wanting to buy a 30K dollars car with 20K dollars. The salesman is hesitating. Then you said: "I will buy it as long as you've done ABCD". Do you think this makes any sense?

She: You've told a good and amusing story. You've made a point. However, this story does not apply to me as I don't want to buy that 30K car.

I was silenced (which is kind of submissive?). I was thinking about some redpill-ish responses like "nobody cares what you want" but I decided not to as this sounds value-taking in the sense of TPM.

I was surprised that she changed so quickly from here to there.

I understand that gals are sometimes less rational and more emotionally driven, which is not bad per se. However, I don't think my story is bad enough to doom my attraction from the top to the bottom.

What shall I do here in future, when she said "I don't want you"?

Any comment will help a lot, no matter long or short. Many thanks in advance.

Matthew Whitewood has reacted to this post.
Matthew Whitewood

Do you think

  • she wanted you to do ABCDEF in the sense of tasking, or
  • she thinks it's important for you to do ABCDEF because it will be genuinely good for the relationship?

What do you think about asking

What do you mean by "I don't want to buy that 30K car."?

Because I'm not sure if she means that she doesn't want you.

I think the story may sound a bit transactional.
Maybe that's what put her off.

A direct approach may have worked better:

She: I want you ... I want a relationship and you need to do ABCDEF

You: I think these are 2 different topics.
One is whether we would like to move forward to a relationship.
The other is why I should do ABCDEF for you.
Why would you like me to do ABCDEF?

Where To Go From Here?

Have you talked to her since this interaction?

Would you be able to give more context around your relationship with this girl?
I suppose that you have been going out with her for a while.
And she wants to move this relationship onto something more serious.

selffriend has reacted to this post.
selffriend
Quote from Matthew Whitewood on April 9, 2021, 1:23 pm

Do you think

  • she wanted you to do ABCDEF in the sense of tasking, or
  • she thinks it's important for you to do ABCDEF because it will be genuinely good for the relationship?

What do you think about asking

What do you mean by "I don't want to buy that 30K car."?

Because I'm not sure if she means that she doesn't want you.

I think the story may sound a bit transactional.
Maybe that's what put her off.

A direct approach may have worked better:

She: I want you ... I want a relationship and you need to do ABCDEF

You: I think these are 2 different topics.
One is whether we would like to move forward to a relationship.
The other is why I should do ABCDEF for you.
Why would you like me to do ABCDEF?

Where To Go From Here?

Have you talked to her since this interaction?

Would you be able to give more context around your relationship with this girl?
I suppose that you have been going out with her for a while.
And she wants to move this relationship onto something more serious.

Hi Matthew. Highly appreciate your thoughts!

Would I be able to give more context around my relationship with this girl?

Yes happy to! We have been dating for a while and now she seems to want something serious. After this interaction, she carefully asked me to buy her a gift worth 100 dollars. By "carefully" I mean that she prepared three reasons that I need to buy this for her. She framed those reasons as win-win. First, by buying this gift, I can demonstrate that I care about her.  Second, buying this gift makes her happier, and by making her happier she can make me happier. Win-win. Third, she said "I have been emotional needy", so buying this gift will encourage her to fit my emotional need.

To be honest, I do contact her at least once every two days, but I don't think I've been needy. She needs the relationship much more from my view. Also I never bought her gift or paid her bill so I don't think I am the provider (I am not too oppose to the idea, but I only want to provide material to my wife and children; I could be having a poor mindset on this). I was kind of insulted that she took me as grant, so I said "sure I'll do you this favor, provided that you buy me a gift first". Well, now I admit that this is not best move as it is transactional.

Transactional and ABCDEF

I agree that transactional stories can turn people off. I should avoid this in future for sure. Let me explain. I went kind of transactional because many of her ABCDEF are material related. Her ABCDEF include: she has timeline for marriage (she is close to 29 so hitting the wall soon), she has a timeline for child, she has a timeline for purchasing a house, she has an expectation for my career change that I need to work on, she has an expectation on my future income, I need to remember some important dates and prepare her gifts etc. I cannot recall all of them. She smartly frame those things as win-win.

Well, after I indirectly rejected buying gift for her, she said: "you are not a mature and responsible man. You don't even want to spend the tiniest amount of money on me. I cannot depend on you for our child in future. We are done"

I was confused. She is not even my girlfriend, so I don't think I should buy her gifts. We haven't made any real contact since then.

I'm not sure if she means that she doesn't want you.

You are definitely right, Matthew. I was a little bit pessimistic there, by interpreting her words as "not wanting me". I didn't have to interpret her "not wanting the car" as "not wanting me as a person". I should've as her that question you suggested.

I think these are 2 different topics.

This is a fantastic response that I will definitely use in future. It implies that the speaker is very logical, rational, calm, neutral, unaffected, firm like a stone!

Matthew Whitewood has reacted to this post.
Matthew Whitewood

This reminds me of that old story attributed to Winston Churchill.  He asked a lady if she would sleep with him for a million pounds she said she would.  Then he asked her if she would sleep with him for 100 pounds.  And she said What do you think I am?”

He replied we've established that, now we re just talking about the price.

By all means have fun with this girl but she s showing red flags.

You've been really helpful on some of my work threads which I have appreciated very much so now  a serious response.

Another option is a teasing approach.  "Hey hey relationship...we re just getting to know each other.  When you're my girl you can have the moon and the stars."

And then a bit of reassurance.

"I really like spending time with you - you re different from other girls.  And I d like to see where this goes"

This rests on mindsets to me.  You are as you train.

Dating mindsets of:

Always be willing to walk away

Always be self amused.  This helps with rejection.  Just like power dynamics see it as an entertaining game and you won't be so emotionally invested or wounded.

Our PU mindset of not being manipulated and preserving our personal power

 

 

 

 

 

 

selffriend has reacted to this post.
selffriend
Quote from selffriend on April 9, 2021, 3:54 pm

Hi Matthew. Highly appreciate your thoughts!

Would I be able to give more context around my relationship with this girl?

Yes happy to! We have been dating for a while and now she seems to want something serious. After this interaction, she carefully asked me to buy her a gift worth 100 dollars. By "carefully" I mean that she prepared three reasons that I need to buy this for her. She framed those reasons as win-win. First, by buying this gift, I can demonstrate that I care about her.  Second, buying this gift makes her happier, and by making her happier she can make me happier. Win-win. Third, she said "I have been emotional needy", so buying this gift will encourage her to fit my emotional need.

To be honest, I do contact her at least once every two days, but I don't think I've been needy. She needs the relationship much more from my view. Also I never bought her gift or paid her bill so I don't think I am the provider (I am not too oppose to the idea, but I only want to provide material to my wife and children; I could be having a poor mindset on this). I was kind of insulted that she took me as grant, so I said "sure I'll do you this favor, provided that you buy me a gift first". Well, now I admit that this is not best move as it is transactional.

Transactional and ABCDEF

I agree that transactional stories can turn people off. I should avoid this in future for sure. Let me explain. I went kind of transactional because many of her ABCDEF are material related. Her ABCDEF include: she has timeline for marriage (she is close to 29 so hitting the wall soon), she has a timeline for child, she has a timeline for purchasing a house, she has an expectation for my career change that I need to work on, she has an expectation on my future income, I need to remember some important dates and prepare her gifts etc. I cannot recall all of them. She smartly frame those things as win-win.

Well, after I indirectly rejected buying gift for her, she said: "you are not a mature and responsible man. You don't even want to spend the tiniest amount of money on me. I cannot depend on you for our child in future. We are done"

I was confused. She is not even my girlfriend, so I don't think I should buy her gifts. We haven't made any real contact since then.

I'm not sure if she means that she doesn't want you.

You are definitely right, Matthew. I was a little bit pessimistic there, by interpreting her words as "not wanting me". I didn't have to interpret her "not wanting the car" as "not wanting me as a person". I should've as her that question you suggested.

I think these are 2 different topics.

This is a fantastic response that I will definitely use in future. It implies that the speaker is very logical, rational, calm, neutral, unaffected, firm like a stone!

I need to correct a typo at the end of the first paragraph. She said that I (selffriend) has been emotional needy:needing her a lot, so, by pleasing her, she will better fulfill my emotional neediness in future.


 

Hi Transitioned, I am deeply indebt of your suggests. I will definitely learn a lot from your wonderful suggestions. I think they are pretty good!

I agree that the mindsets you mentioned are critical.

Always be self amused.  

Does it mean that I can reframe her rejection as amusement?

Or does it mean that being the state of self amusement help me to stay unaffected and nonchalant while being rejected?

Not being manipulated and preserving our personal power

Definitely important!

Always be willing to walk away

This is the hardest part to do. I truly understand that if I just say goodbye to some redflag gals, then I will have more time to pick up more collaborative girls, and make my life much much better and easier. However, I don't know why I just cannot get over them. It is very hard for me.

"Or does it mean that being the state of self amusement help me to stay unaffected and nonchalant while being rejected?"

This ^

If you have time you should be seeing multiple girls.  That fixes the attachment too early problem you mentioned.   By moving your mind into affluence/comparison mode.  Instead of this girl likes me I d  better hang onto her.  To: this one is funny, this one is kind, this one is good lover, etc.

Seeing multiple girls is more practice.  Exposes you to more games.  Which teaches you more responses.  And over time what default counters work best for YOU.  That s what I used to like OLD for NOT for catching a wife.

selffriend has reacted to this post.
selffriend

I regard the whole system as like the Hogwarts sorting hat.  You pay more attention to the girls in your rotation that are behaving well.  The others just fade away to go make other men miserable.

selffriend has reacted to this post.
selffriend

Sorry spamming your thread.  One last opinion I think is important and would like to share.  All girls shittest.  Guys seem to see life as a game of chess - a battle.  Don't push girls into battle mode - you won't enjoy meeting the hamster terminator.  Most shit tests you're better to reframe and answer with reassurance.

Say a typical low-level shit test.

She starts talking about Brad.  He's so funny.

You give her an amused look and change the topic.

If she keeps going on about Brad, say "come here you. " Give her a hug and say "hey I m not one of those stupid jealous guys.  You go with your friends any time you like."

And raise an amber flag in your mind that this girl might have many orbiters and need constant male validation.

So occasional shittest is not grounds for ignoring the girl.  A couple of shittest withdraw attention.  Too many too often immediate dismissal.

selffriend has reacted to this post.
selffriend
Quote from Transitioned on April 11, 2021, 4:18 am

Sorry spamming your thread.  One last opinion I think is important and would like to share.  All girls shittest.  Guys seem to see life as a game of chess - a battle.  Don't push girls into battle mode - you won't enjoy meeting the hamster terminator.  Most shit tests you're better to reframe and answer with reassurance.

She starts talking about Brad.  He's so funny.

You give her an amused look and change the topic.

If she keeps going on about Brad, say "come here you. " Give her a hug and say "hey I m not one of those stupid jealous guys.  You go with your friends any time you like."

Hi Transitioned, you are more than welcome to "spam" my thread more ;)

By "Brad", in your example, did you mean the Brad Pitt or a random friend named "Brad", or it could be both?

And raise an amber flag in your mind that this girl might have many orbiters and need constant male validation.

So occasional shittest is not grounds for ignoring the girl.  A couple of shittest withdraw attention.  Too many too often immediate dismissal.

Not sure about the complete dismissal. I've learned from some other dating advisor a long time ago that avoiding questions is submissive; facing questions, solve the question, and convince her is the alpha way to go. The advisor said, if a guy cannot even convince a girl, then he is just low quality.

Though, if all attempts of rational discuss failed to be any effective, then,

The Hogwarts hat's example make perfect sense to me. Let them fade is a good idea. Never look back.

And raise an amber flag in your mind that this girl might have many orbiters and need constant male validation.

Agree 100%.

By moving your mind into affluence/comparison mode.

You are right about this. I need to date more girls. I know a lot of people dating a lot of girls at the same time, so that can be emotional indifferent -- the state which I cannot be at.

However, time is my primary constraint.

Too many shit tests mean she s lost respect.  Very hard to regain once lost.

selffriend has reacted to this post.
selffriend