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Changing relationship power dynamics

Suppose a relationship starts with the woman as the alpha. Say she wasn't attracted to him in the first place for his power and leadership qualities, though in past relationships she did find such qualities attractive. She has the higher SMV and social status. She has a mindset in which she sees herself as "above" the man, as the clear leader. Then suppose both parties decide they don't want this dynamic anymore--they both want him to be the alpha, her to be in a more submissive role. Consciously, they both choose this. Subconsciously, the initial dynamic tends to stick.

Is it possible for this couple to change that subconscious dynamic if they work together? If so, how would they go about it?

EDIT: Added note about SMV and social status.

As the forum guidelines suggest answering your own questions, I'll make an attempt from my limited understanding of power dynamics based on this web site.

It seems to me that the "sticky" subconscious power dynamic between this hypothetical couple will be difficult to change, but maybe it can be changed under the right conditions, especially if they are willing to work together. I think her perceived higher SMV and social status may be an issue unless those perceptions change. And the perceptions aren't likely to change unless the reality changes. So they should make an effort to elevate his status in those areas. It also seems that our subconscious beliefs are ultimately programmed at least somewhat by our conscious thoughts, actions, and experiences, though they are slow to change. If this couple would like to change their power dynamics, they should try to have as many exchanges as possible in which he comes out as a competent and compassionate leader, and she comes out as an intelligent and submissive (to him) copilot.

Lucio wrote that "values and beliefs are some of the most important drivers of behavior." A conscious choice to change the dynamic is a good start, and internalizing those values and beliefs that they consciously hold through everyday thoughts and actions will help drive the beliefs down to the more instinctive and emotional levels.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this approach, or other opinions or ideas?

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Lucio Buffalmanoleaderoffun
Quote from sg on October 14, 2021, 7:27 pm

I think her perceived higher SMV and social status may be an issue unless those perceptions change. And the perceptions aren't likely to change unless the reality changes. So they should make an effort to elevate his status in those areas (...) as many exchanges as possible in which he comes out as a competent and compassionate leader, and she comes out as an intelligent and submissive (to him) copilot.

I agree with that, same as what I'd have said myself.

Maybe I'd have put it more in the positive, such as: think and act like a good leader, give it some time -but not that much is needed- for people's minds to see it as the new reality, rather than a one-off exception, and the "issue" is pretty much solved.

Charting the new course = change + stick to the change + (little) time

It's like a ship changing course.

During the maneuver, it's "adjustment time".
People still remember the old direction, it's still fresh in people's minds, Some may not yet accept the new one, and the new direction might lead to some readjustment and pushback (but not in the case where everyone wanted to change course).
Some ships will fear the rebellion and revert to the old course.
Not you.

The supportive ones instead might not yet believe the new direction is set for good.
They need some more evidence.

But once the ship stays on the new course, the rebels will eventually adjust. And the supportive ones will be happy the new course is there to stay.

The past pales in comparison to the present

The old direction is for the ship records, and nobody cares about those.
People care about where they're going right now, and where they will be.

Who's making this change? Team effort VS taking ownership

The one caveat I'd add is: you use the pronoun "we".
That suggests an awesome relationship.

But on doing the specific behavioral changes and mindset switches, I'd focus more on yourself. This specific change is on you. She's already doing all her part by not wanting the leadership. What an awesome spiker. But scoring that point (becoming that leader) is on you.

How to do it

And as for the "how", I think you're already doing it.

My biased point of view is that PU is (one of) the best resources on power and (collaborative) leadership. And the other side of the coin is about putting it into practice.

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sgleaderoffun
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?
Quote from sg on October 14, 2021, 7:27 pm

As the forum guidelines suggest answering your own questions, I'll make an attempt from my limited understanding of power dynamics based on this web site.

Quick note on this:

The forum guidelines are not cast in stone.
They're there to make for a better forum.

So if someone shows good reasons why "answering one's own questions" adds no vlaue, it will be scrapped (but so far it seems to me it's helped a lot).

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Transitioned
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

This is an interesting post, as I wasn't aware that it was possible to change these dynamics in a relationship and be able to actually switch them, both consciously and subconsciously. It is quite encouraging to read that it is possible to change how people see you, that you get a second chance.

I can only speak for myself, but as one woman's voice, I agree with Lucio here:

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 14, 2021, 8:09 pm

But on doing the specific behavioral changes and mindset switches, I'd focus more on yourself. This specific change is on you. She's already doing all her part by not wanting the leadership. What an awesome spiker. But scoring that point (becoming that leader) is on you.

I was thinking "take it!" when reading your post @dan771. But of course, it is easier said than done, because I believe it also has to be felt within you, that you are in the place to take it, to take dominance. This is also from my own experience from a 6 year long relationship, where there was a similar dynamic, though we never talked about it explicitly like this. And unfortunately never made the switch.

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Lucio BuffalmanoTransitioned

Difficult because you don't have enough relationship capital (respect) to fund the changes.  The standard manosphere advice is to work on yourself first.  When she s sleeping your off at the gym or social or working on a project.  Those changes will spark curiosity in her if it's not too far dead.  What I think that advice lacks is reassurance.  Be affectionate, talk with her about planning your next holiday etc.  Otherwise she LL think your monkey branching because that's a common strategy for women.

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Lucio BuffalmanoMaya88leaderoffun
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 14, 2021, 8:10 pm
Quote from sg on October 14, 2021, 7:27 pm

As the forum guidelines suggest answering your own questions, I'll make an attempt from my limited understanding of power dynamics based on this web site.

Quick note on this:

The forum guidelines are not cast in stone.
They're there to make for a better forum.

So if someone shows good reasons why "answering one's own questions" adds no vlaue, it will be scrapped (but so far it seems to me it's helped a lot).

I think it is very empowering to answer one's own questions. Otherwise, I think I don't have anything to add to the already great answers.

@transitioned, I got curious, what does monkey branching mean?

Quote from Maya88 on June 26, 2022, 1:56 am

@transitioned, I got curious, what does monkey branching mean?

In Manosphere terms, it's the tendency of women to go from one man to another (jump branches) if things don't go well. For attractive women, there's no shortage of candidates so 'stay and invest' is a less enticing option, compared to an average man. Average men have a harder time monkey branching (they have to approach, to start with! fear of rejection etc. Plus most women want the top of the pyramid and they are not it, so...).

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Maya88

Technically what makes it monkey branching is they are lining up another partner while staying with their current one.

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