Girl flakes on a date then wants to hangout with friends. How can I recover?

Quote from John Freeman on March 17, 2023, 12:26 pm

Hello dictatorce,

I think your analysis is spot on. You were until one point and then I think there was an over-investment. I also think there might have been sexual undertones at that stage of the relationship with this type of conservative/religious, it probably put her off.

Quote from dictatorce on March 16, 2023, 3:29 pm

Her IG story said something like "Lunch date with a female friend"
Me: So when is our date coming soon? (Originally my intention was just coffee but whatever)

Her: Hahahahaha, I'm game, are we going to meet at the cafe?

Me: You know me better than I do, who taught you these things?

Me: You'll go early?

Her: Hahahaha of course, I'll check if I can go early, I would still see you in the lobby anyway.

Me: Sure, what time do you usually go on church?

(The next day she replied)

Her: I usually go around 11:30, but I'll try going around 10:30AM! (I believe the reason why she replied long was because she still had mixed feelings? and didn't want to commit)

Until here it was perfect, you reached your goal: to set up a meet up. I think we cannot know why she answered the next day, it could be anything we have no info and I think it's not relevant to the situation. That being said, you could be right.

Me: Yay, so now it's going to be breakfast? hahaha (Looking back I should have stopped when she already set a time)

Her: Yass haha because we and my friends are going to meet up after service

She's playing along, answering to your question, so far so good.

Me: Yeah it's okay, there's always next time, let's take it step by step? (My intention was for her to get my insinuation)

I think there it was too gamey or over-gaming as Todd can sometimes do. You imply that she was chasing you whereas she was not so it was an attempt to reverse the chasing frame. This was not necessary as you already reached your goal before.

Me: I'm going to have to abandon my duties just for you. (I said this jokingly as she seemed to laugh at these types of jokes before)

Her: Oh okay, some other time when the schedule is fixed up, you don't have to skip your responsibilities for me Dictatorce 🙂 Maybe we can have lunch some other time with other church friends too !!
Her: See you when I see you on Sunday (no fixed time, already unsure)

Here, by over-gaming, I think it made you come across as player-ish. She's re-establishing boundaries and go for social meetup rather than a date which could have sexual undertones. So what she meant was: "let's go slower".

Me: Just joking, I'm usually free at those hours anyway, I'm still game though. (Yes I know...)

After she stepped back, now you're chasing more. So now I think you established too much of a power/value differential in your disfavor. It's all a communication thing, it does not mean you are lower value than her. Rather that you communicate that you need her more than she needs you. So she has the higher value. She already started higher value as you initiated contact which is fair. Through your banter you showed great quality and went higher power and then lower power again I think.

Her: I appreciate you for intiating this Dictatorce, but I've already made up my mind 🙂 Let's do it some other time with church friends!

Here she prefer to keep it social first. I think you still have a fair chance. However, you will have to start social with her friends and show boyfriend qualities I think. Then you can propose her again a 1-on-1 meeting. So all in all I think all that happened is just a delay of the 1-on-1 meet. It is still on I think. I would downplay the player/flirt thing and go more about revealing things about you and asking questions about her. That means building a connection.

Quote from dictatorce on March 17, 2023, 4:38 pm

Hi John,

I think there it was too gamey or over-gaming as Todd can sometimes do. You imply that she was chasing you whereas she was not so it was an attempt to reverse the chasing frame. This was not necessary as you already reached your goal before.

Thing is, when we talked face to face, it did seem like she was the one investing and chasing; she asked for my socials, approached me, and everything. Maybe she doesn't want to look too easy?

Me: Yeah it's okay, there's always next time, let's take it step by step? (My intention was for her to get my insinuation)

I think she misread this as well, she may think that I was saying or insinuating that we are going too fast, and she may have self-rejected? While my true intention was that there be another "date" after this quick meetup, I was trying to subconsciously set it up already, I believe it would work when I say it face to face, but chat seems different as she didn't get the vibe.

Here, by over-gaming, I think it made you come across as player-ish. She's re-establishing boundaries and go for social meetup rather than a date which could have sexual undertones. So what she meant was: "let's go slower".

Funny enough, she reacted with a 😲 on my "abandoning duties" reply. It seemed that she felt that I was pushing it even if it was a burden to me, so yeah, I looked bad here. But again, my intention wasn't that; if it were face-to-face, I believe it would have worked.

Here she prefer to keep it social first. I think you still have a fair chance. However, you will have to start social with her friends and show boyfriend qualities I think. Then you can propose her again a 1-on-1 meeting. So all in all I think all that happened is just a delay of the 1-on-1 meet. It is still on I think. I would downplay the player/flirt thing and go more about revealing things about you and asking questions about her. That means building a connection.

Yes, I get it; it also happened to me before, there was this girl who really liked me, but when I asked her out, she always seems to put boundaries, heck she liked me so much that even when she had a boyfriend, she still approaches me and tries to flirt with me.

I also get the fact that Christian women like to be courted, I don't think she's ever had a boyfriend, though, so it's going to be challenging for me. The bad problem about the courting culture in my country/church is that I've heard stories where the guy literally has to ask the girl if she wants to be courted, then have to talk to the parents, leaders, and so on, yet it worked... (the man was still the leader though eventually)

After she stepped back, now you're chasing more. So now I think you established too much of a power/value differential in your disfavor. It's all a communication thing, it does not mean you are lower value than her. Rather that you communicate that you need her more than she needs you. So she has the higher value. She already started higher value as you initiated contact which is fair. Through your banter you showed great quality and went higher power and then lower power again I think.

I'm willing to court her and pursue her, it seems like she's a high-quality woman who can be submissive once I've won her over. I just don't want to court her while being disempowered, it's about finding the right balance of leadership and power, while pursuing her.

As for her friends, I am quite social with them, recently met a friend of hers (who I also believe likes me) he asked why I was slimming down, and she asked why I cut my hair and all that, but I barely made any changes yet. (sounds like they're talking about me?)

When she said, she's made up her mind, though, that hit my ego...

But my question now is, how do I work this thing out? How do I properly court her in my frame? How can I build comfort, attraction, trust, and connection? How can I ask her out while her having that "plausible deniability"? Should I play ball with the "eating with her friends" thing first or hopefully she joins MY friend's lunch? How can I do these properly? (I believe I could get 10-20 minutes of talking every Sunday, plus I don't want to chat just for the sake of it, as you know I'm a novice at it, but I'm willing to play the long game.)

To add, I've only met her like 2-3 times, just casual greeting and me casually making her laugh, only last week did we really talk and have her come up to me and ask for my socials. I just did what a man should do and move it forward, but I guess she wants it slow?

I believe I could just step back a bit, take the pressure off, let her see that I am doing my thing, be seen talking and flirting with other women (which I usually do though), still interact with her and flirt, build attraction and connection as much as I can, then let's see what happens? Hopefully, she reinvests, approaches me, and all that. Maybe treat her with coffee at the church cafe once I feel that my power is back, and hopefully, she'll follow my lead in that cafe.

Quote from John Freeman on March 18, 2023, 12:01 pm

My opinion: don’t overthink it. Continue to get to know her better until it feels natural for you 2 to meet 1-on-1.

You’re doing well so far I think. Just continue getting to know her and letting her know you when you see her at church. You have all the time in the World. Time is working in your favour. The more she knows you the more attracted she will become.

Quote from dictatorce on March 18, 2023, 12:55 pm

Quote from John Freeman on March 18, 2023, 12:01 pm

My opinion: don’t overthink it. Continue to get to know her better until it feels natural for you 2 to meet 1-on-1.

You’re doing well so far I think. Just continue getting to know her and letting her know you when you see her at church. You have all the time in the World. Time is working in your favour. The more she knows you the more attracted she will become.

Thanks man, quite encouraging.