Touching - backward rationalization
Hello people,
I want to share with you a weird dating experience. Your thoughts about it is appreciated.
I had a coffe date with this girl (First time, we met), she wasn't feeling that excited about it and I matched slightly less her energetic vibe. When she arrives, I told her to sit near me and she complies. In the middle of chit-chat (where she's doing 80% of talking while me trying to screen her) I qualify her when she's advocate something high value, by giving her light touches and escalating it further yet very calibrated according to her reaction. She starts to invest more, while her reaction to my touching was neutral.
Bare in mind, that I live in conservative society (still influenced to some extent by social liberal) so there at some extent I can escalate in first date. Also the girl wasn't a pure conservative at all.
After the date, she messaged me that, she wasn't feeling it, the touches made her feel unconfortable althought she "let me touch" her (backward rationalization). But since I tend to judge a person not on his words but his actions, I felt she was more compliant and investing when I touch her.
What I'm thinking with this experience, is I should have escalated further but it's like a double bind since you are in a conservative society.
Another point is, althought with all actions I took to escalate the vibe, deep down myself I was not feeling that desire energy that normally I feel when being on a date. Maybe she felt that, yet she was investing.
What do you think could made her lose interest after the date?
Hello Elkhouani,
I think you did good.
I had a coffe date with this girl (First time, we met), she wasn't feeling that excited about it and I matched slightly less her energetic vibe.
For me, it started here. If she's not attracted to you in the first place, you're fighting an uphill battle. I think too many times we try to get with girls who are not the right fit for us. Because she's pretty or fit "our type" but the personality match is not there. If there is mutual attraction, no work is needed in my experience. It's just the mutual process of getting to know one another and mutual seduction.
Also, I don't think anymore any touching is required at the first date, contrary to most dating advice. No kissing either. I think the first date is to get to know one another, to vibe, to see compatibility. Basically to have a good time. So no pressure on moving forward I think.
You did not fail, she was just not the right girl for you. I would keep looking and increase my options by going on more dates.
My take on this:
It's entirely possible she back-rationalized in a negative way.
And it's true that you can't take a woman's feedback at face value after a date.
However, that doesn't mean that any feedback you get is useless.
In general, I agree with John: touching is not necessary.
And in your specific case, since it's certainly possible and even easy to overdo touching and annoying or creeping someone out, after this experience, the next best fix may indeed be to simply cut down on the touching.
To touch or not is an interesting question. One of the most successful guys I have ever seen with with women Used to lead with a 1/2 side hug and a kiss on the cheek. But because he had bedded hundreds of girls probably had rock solid confidence maybe an outlier.
And I agree with the guys for another reason on top of. If you get too physical on the 1st date there is no mystery left she doesn't have the anticipation and ? In her mind? is he into me or not
If you get too physical on the 1st date there is no mystery left she doesn't have the anticipation and ? In her mind? is he into me or not
The thing about mystery is, as you move forward the less (or harder) mysterious you're gonna be. (Since moving forward or escalating things = I want you).
The more I moved things forward the lesser I focused on staying mysterious. Rather I focused on making the anticipation on whether I'll touch her or escalate more or not.
Like the experiment of food anticipation tested on pigeons or the gambler anticipation to hit a jackpot. It's random yet rewarding.
I don't think there's a right or wrong way - comes down to personal style and what YOU can make work on a certain day with a certain woman.
If you want a real train wreck on miss-reading signals, here's one of mine. OLD - messaged - got the number. Convo was going really well, vibing and joking back back n forth and I started steering to adventurous/sexy. She went dead cold and I bailed. Got a big email saying she had just heard her best friend had got cancer. What I took for being into me was just her desperately needing somebody to talk to to distract from. She was so happy and positive sounding I totally didn't see the black hole behind. Only time I sent a big long apology email to a Lady.
Quote from Transitioned on March 21, 2023, 1:25 amI don't think there's a right or wrong way - comes down to personal style and what YOU can make work on a certain day with a certain woman.
Yeah, exactly, you can make anything work -like your friend with the half hug and kiss-.
Some styles though are naturally riskier/more sexually forward, and thus better for more advanced and/or more libertine cultures.
More touch is like that: the more touch you add, the more sexual and riskier it becomes.
I don't think there's a right or wrong way - comes down to personal style and what YOU can make work on a certain day with a certain woman.
Definitely, it's better to come from your own style and adjust than to take the advice from the pickup community as face value. I lost a lot of time by adopting behaviours that were actually counter-productive as my own style with a few tweaks was more effective. Basically, it's about flirting and connecting with someone you're attracted to and who's attracted to you. Rinse and repeat. At some point she's so attracted that she wants physical contact. You have to feel it and for instance kiss her goodbye. And you go from there. She's telling what her rhythm is. Our role is to move forward but in my case I was moving too fast which seemed needy and desperate even if I was not. I was following the advice from Girlschase. It is a good advice, however it is to be calibrated to the situation. Now I slowed down my process and have much better results. It's not about the number of dates, it is about becoming progressively closer to someone you enjoy being around and who's attractive to you.
The pickup community did a great job by deconstructing and de-mythifying some stuff. But they also were dead wrong on others or just not refined enough.
I recommend you look at the resource from this list from Lucio. In my experience, these are solid resources.
Thank you for your insights!
In the end, it all comes to the situation, your awareness of it and your awareness of your strengths/weaknesses.
I had a more forward style and I faced the problem that comes with it: value problems, low power and :
I was moving too fast which seemed needy and desperate even if I was not.
But in some situations, it was really effective and impactful.
So it all depends on the situation and one has to grasp it to know what is the best way to act. Therefore, it comes down to be a Social strategist. That's my aim.
- Update:
I turned around her "buying remorse" by:
- building her up,
- framing that: me touching you = I like you.
I suspected from the way she talked that she felt "easy" or "slutty" to some extent.
Now she wants me to meet her again 😀