Former Community – We Moved
🆕 Coached community here, for posts & feedback public community here.
Jordan Peterson's Online University: Scam or Good?
So Jordan Peterson is about to launch a new online course.
Apparently, her daughter Mikhaila Peterson is also involved.
I don't know her well enough to judge.
But my first thoughts from the little I had seen was that she was a bit over-leveraging her father's notoriety for her own content.
So, in that sense, this Jordan Peterson's Online University feels like an easy way to cash in on the fame -which is totally fine, as long as the quality is there-.
So, speaking of quality, I guess we'd have to hold off any real review until someone tries.
Going by the first advertisement alone, several red flags stood out to me.
It seems:
- Cultur-war driven, as in "anti-woke". To some that's better than woke, but... How about just a great product, independent of either woke or anti-woke? Some of us are tired of those cultural wars.
Personally, the least thing I'd want is to waste any of my time on that. - Anger-fueled. Towards the end it feels more like Peterson's revenge, than a product done to add value. I don't wanna pay to be enlisted in his war -also because it seems to be having a terrible effect on him-
- A bit too self-referential / narcissistic? I understand that once you have that big of a brand recognition, it's just the easiest marketing move to slap your name on it. But still... I don't wanna learn to be a new Jordan Peterson, especially not this JP.
- Power moves-laden, see below
In this part here:
Peterson: you'll be damn fortunate if we can provide you with a list of people who graduated. And if you have any sense, you'll employ them preferentially
Man, that whole part was cringe AF :S.
This is all a disempowering power move, both the words, the attitude, and even the creepy background music.
The sub-communication is:
- I'm so superior to you
- You wish I could give you this (but you don't get it)
- You can't make your own assessments
- You may not have any sense
- The people who come through this uni are better than anything else you can find (I strongly doubt that)
Coming from a marketer like Tai Lopez this would be a "LOL, what a marketing ploy".
From an Andrew Tate a "hmmm, pretty in line with his brand. In a way, quite funny actually how he disses his own audience (and the bitches still buy)".
From JP it's a bit sad, since he used to be a better man than this, in my opinion.
And this part here:
Jordan Peterson: So I think we can just skip the accreditation process and go straight to the employment
Michaela Peterson: Yeah
God man, are you even suggesting this will help people get a better job than an actual degree?
And like... How are you even going to do that?
It's up to the employers to decide, and here's me betting that any actual degree will trump Jordan Peterson's Online University 10/10 times.
As a matter of fact, my guess is that if you wanna come across as an idiot and make the employers laugh, you'd just have to write JP University on your CV (and just to be clear, it would be the exact same for PU).
It starts getting really tough to defend Peterson and want to see the good with self-serving nonsense like that.
And her daughter standing there and confirming, feels like the bloodline of connivers.
He also looks possessed, and not in a "poised" or good way:
"I know how to do that screening work because I studied that for 25 years".
I agree he's an excellent judge of dark tirad character. But he doesn't seem to apply nearly the same rigor for right-wing figures because of his personal political biases (just compare how he talks about Trump or even Tate VS, say, Trudeau. See the difference)
Anyway, I frankly wouldn't recommend this to a friend.
But hey, I may be totally wrong of course (and JP is a very smart man).
So anyone here will give it a try, curious to hear about it.
Thanks a lot for sharing.
So sad. I'm afraid he started to believe his own hype and got in a self-reinforcing bubble. I agree the body language is more about anger. I think he got hurt emotionally in this social media battle and did not recover. He could withhold for a time the criticism and the hatred. But I'm afraid the Internet won and created a monster. That's a bit strong. But as you said I feel he was a more centered more rational man before. Probably self-preservation mental mechanisms.
Anyway, I think it's a lesson for us all. It does not matter how high we rise. Being internally centered is paramount to our mental and emotional health. Dealing with social media put people at risk of course to fall to their own ego.
This is a great warning for any situation where our ego gets stroked a lot. Dangerous stuff for the man or woman seeking wisdom and inner peace.
Yes, I totally agree:
- Believed his own hype
- The "Internet life" distorted reality for him
- Got radicalized in the battle
It's a very telling tale of the dangers of the bigger dynamics at play.
If an intelligent man like Peterson can fall for it, you better set up some external systems and reminders to keep you in check.
And one more, I'm afraid this one also may be getting the best of him:
- Greed, putting money above a lot of other stuff
First, he put money above (at least trying to) remain impartial.
And now, and I hope I'm wrong, it got me thinking if he's not putting money above delivering value.
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on September 29, 2023, 10:43 pmIf an intelligent man like Peterson can fall for it, you better set up some external systems and reminders to keep you in check.
I think the same about the risk for any of us here or elsewhere. External systems and reminders are better than wishful thinking you're right.
The story goes that Marcus Aurelius hired an assistant to follow him as he walked through the Roman towns square.The assistant’s only role was to, whenever Marcus Aurelius was praised, whisper in his ear, « You’re just a man. You’re just a man. »
We're just men.
Off-topic
PS: I did not want to put you on the spot nor power move. However if I'm being honest it's something that I've been sincerely hoping for some time now so I'm taking this opportunity to tell you. That with the website, youtube, etc. I hope this does not happen to you. Going back to me if this happens to me I hope I can count on this community to pull me out of it. To me this is a fate I wish on no one nor myself: self-deception (and the worst kind here as we all self-lie a little bit). I intend this message as a friend.
/Off-topic
Yeah, at that Marcus Aurelius the risks are extremely high.
It almost seems like a law of power:
Any dictator will (almost) invariably grow too conceited.
And that conceit can not only make him a less effective leader and worse human being, but also cost him personally (see Putin, Gheddafi, Moubarak, Hitler, etc. etc. Even many who didn't die early deaths turned horrible leaders).
Quote from John Freeman on September 29, 2023, 11:03 pmPS: I did not want to put you on the spot nor power move. However if I'm being honest it's something that I've been sincerely hoping for some time now so I'm taking this opportunity to tell you. That with the website, youtube, etc. I hope this does not happen to you. Going back to me if this happens to me I hope I can count on this community to pull me out of it. To me this is a fate I wish on no one nor myself: self-deception (and the worst kind here as we all self-lie a little bit). I intend this message as a friend.
Thanks, I did think about it.
I even wanted to write "if one day you'll see a course called Lucio Buffalmano University, run the other way :D".
But yeah, half-jokes aside, I think it's an optimum balance and there is a "fair level" where more confidence in oneself and behavior that seems (or even is) more self-referential can be justified.
As an example, as you become more and more of an expert in both medicine and processes it becomes fairer and fairer for you to tell a fresh out of college "it's this way, I have 20 years experience on this (no argument about it)".
Or to share at a conference how you became head doctor of X hospital, even after a degree in a wholly different field. That may sound like you're into yourself to some in the audience, but still... You did it.
And if deep down you think more and more highly of yourself and your knowledge, it can also be fair if it indeed reflects personal growth and growing expertise.
The problem is when the conceit outstrips all the rest.
And yes, it's a real risk.
So yeah, agree with you to give ourselves feedback when we feel that's the case.
Cheers guys.
It's been a while since the last time I heard a Jp lecture, and man it's a shame that the latest news I get from him are this, that he ultimately succumbed to his dark side.
About the video in itself, for me it does sound condescending too, and the first part in particular when he asks "why should you be generally educated?" And what follows that question to me it feels like:
Why should you want to be generally educated?----->why should you get my course?----->Because if you don't you will be an absolute loser in every way and form and and a disgrace of a human being.
Also his arguments seem so fake to me: not knowing about freudian psychology and having general knowledge (which I believe is for the most part less valuable than being specialized in something) is going to make an executive feel ashamed to talk with me? come on man.
Then he proceeds to say: "You'll be able to get all this courses and you won't be a complete embarrassment to yourself". So if I don't study them I'm an embarrassment to myself.......?
Plenty of power moves.
And cannot agree more with both of you to be honest, if a guy like him falls for this, well every one of us can fall prey to our darkest parts. The higher we fly the more important humility becomes.
Yep, great points Power Duck.
Very condescending indeed.
And also agree that this type of knowledge is not going to make someone necessarily useful in society (Dostoevsky and Piaget is what you need to be useful? Or to be at the top of the hierarchy? Yeah, maybe the top of the status game you play in the academic hierarchy, which is also not exactly the most resource-rich environment).
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on September 29, 2023, 11:28 pmYeah, at that Marcus Aurelius the risks are extremely high.
It almost seems like a law of power:
Any dictator will (almost) invariably grow too conceited.
And that conceit can not only make him a less effective leader and worse human being, but also cost him personally (see Putin, Gheddafi, Moubarak, Hitler, etc. etc. Even many who didn't die early deaths turned horrible leaders).
True. History taught us that. Leaders are a minority, good leaders are rare, great leaders are extremely rare. So someone able to practice philosophy as an emperor is the 1 in a million person. He's been an inspiration to me since I learned about him.
Quote from John Freeman on September 29, 2023, 11:03 pmPS: I did not want to put you on the spot nor power move. However if I'm being honest it's something that I've been sincerely hoping for some time now so I'm taking this opportunity to tell you. That with the website, youtube, etc. I hope this does not happen to you. Going back to me if this happens to me I hope I can count on this community to pull me out of it. To me this is a fate I wish on no one nor myself: self-deception (and the worst kind here as we all self-lie a little bit). I intend this message as a friend.
Thanks, I did think about it.
I'm glad you took it as I meant it.
I even wanted to write "if one day you'll see a course called Lucio Buffalmano University, run the other way :D".
Hahaha!
But yeah, half-jokes aside, I think it's an optimum balance and there is a "fair level" where more confidence in oneself and behavior that seems (or even is) more self-referential can be justified.
As an example, as you become more and more of an expert in both medicine and processes it becomes fairer and fairer for you to tell a fresh out of college "it's this way, I have 20 years experience on this (no argument about it)".
Or to share at a conference how you became head doctor of X hospital, even after a degree in a wholly different field. That may sound like you're into yourself to some in the audience, but still... You did it.
And if deep down you think more and more highly of yourself and your knowledge, it can also be fair if it indeed reflects personal growth and growing expertise.
Yes, that's a fine line to walk. For instance yesterday morning my ego got the best out of me at the handoff with the resident. It was not too bad but I've been condescending. It was about me being superior. And I did not like it at all. Being a humble and confident leader while not being arrogant is a big challenge. That's why I don't mind that actors and celebrities have such big egos. It comes with the territory. I understand only a small minority will be able to keep their feet on the ground. So it's human nature/psychology and I accept it.
Your example is exactly what it looks like in real life. We do feel like something is self-evident so we feel a bit of contempt for the person not to know/understand this. The truth is that we forget real quick that at one point in time we were in their shoes. We forget how long it took us to learn something.
The problem is when the conceit outstrips all the rest.
And yes, it's a real risk.
It is. The more we grow the more we have people who hold us in high esteem. It's what we do with it that matters. For instance yesterday when I gave advice to parents they look at me with big eyes. Like children almost. That's why it's a good thing that it takes us time to reach success. It lets us do so many mistakes in between so that we learn humility. Our mistakes are the testament that we're not superior per se to anyone. We had to learn it all. We may have some proclivities in some aspects but we also suck at many other things.
This is also about our comfort zone. The higher status the more it costs us to get out of our comfort zone. For instance, I could stay in this hospital or I could push myself to do more. When I'll push myself I'll start as a beginner again. No more or less ego-feeding admiration. Or when someone proposes us to do an activity we never did.
That's also something I considered some time ago. That the doctors at the university hospital were very 1-dimensional. They're great but seem great at 1 thing. And it's admirable. What I mean is that in their self-perception I hope they're aware of all the things they suck at.
Like I suck at many things. So it could be another external tool: to do something we never did or that we suck at. To help us remember that we're just men.
So yeah, agree with you to give ourselves feedback when we feel that's the case.
Alright, cool let's do this!
Again this goes back to Instagram for instance. I have 1 picture on Instagram and don't use the app. However, I looked at an average girl's profile: 1000 followers. So I understand you become like a mini-Internet celebrity and it's addictive: the approval, the admiration.
So I was hesitating to use it for dating purposes but I renounced a couple weeks back for the exact reason we talked about in this thread. To me it's a trap. I'm sure it's a useful tool but the costs outweigh the benefits in my mind.
Quote from Power Duck on September 29, 2023, 11:28 pmThe higher we fly the more important humility becomes.
Cheers Power Duck. Yes that's a principle to live by. It's not something that is talked about but you nailed it. That's exactly what it's about. In my notes, thanks a lot!
