Former Community – We Moved
🆕 Coached community here, for posts & feedback public community here.
Bank director who stopped responding
Quote from John Freeman on September 21, 2023, 10:48 pmI for sure have a tendency to "think too much".
I did not say that. I prefer: "think a lot" it's a quality. It has disadvantages (as you can guess I am similar).
In addition, I still think that everything we discussed about here and everything we shared as a possible cause did in fact apply to the case, at least in part.
Meaning that, although maybe the bank would still have stalled, every point we discussed still applies.
No doubt everything we discussed, that I did or did not do, contributed to this "outcome", where unfortunately I have to - again - do more "legal work".
Yes, that's what I meant by "likely hypothesis". It was worth exploring the solutions until you find the right one and you did. It's the continuous process of research that helped you find it.
For me you finding the solution IS the result of exploring hypotheses. And then in hindsight the "wrong" or "less likely" hypotheses may seem inadequate but they're not. They're stepping stone towards the right one. And as you said these can still apply to this case or any future case. Like Edison who (supposedly or his team) had to go through 999 prototypes to invent the light bulb.
So we agree 100% as you see, maybe slight misunderstanding, corrected now.
I for sure have a tendency to "think too much".
I did not say that. I prefer: "think a lot" it's a quality. It has disadvantages (as you can guess I am similar).
In addition, I still think that everything we discussed about here and everything we shared as a possible cause did in fact apply to the case, at least in part.
Meaning that, although maybe the bank would still have stalled, every point we discussed still applies.
No doubt everything we discussed, that I did or did not do, contributed to this "outcome", where unfortunately I have to - again - do more "legal work".
Yes, that's what I meant by "likely hypothesis". It was worth exploring the solutions until you find the right one and you did. It's the continuous process of research that helped you find it.
For me you finding the solution IS the result of exploring hypotheses. And then in hindsight the "wrong" or "less likely" hypotheses may seem inadequate but they're not. They're stepping stone towards the right one. And as you said these can still apply to this case or any future case. Like Edison who (supposedly or his team) had to go through 999 prototypes to invent the light bulb.
So we agree 100% as you see, maybe slight misunderstanding, corrected now.
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on September 21, 2023, 10:54 pmOFF-TOPIC
What I meant is not so much the over-explanation (albeit that too one may want to transcend once they reach a certain level of expertise and can get a good grasp of the situation without getting lost in too many details. It tends to be more efficient after a certain level) but the over-trust in those explanations.
The tendency to see a connection and/or think of an explanation, and over-trust the explanatory power of that link, or the truthfulness of our own analysis/explanation.
In my opinion, it's a major human bias that we all have and all must be aware of.
I see it over and over again, including from very smart folks who developed major systems of thoughts based on assumptions that are not always and necessarily true, or not as true and as generalizable as they concluded.
It potentially stands in the way of growth because it may lead people astray towards paths that seem true, but may not be.
That's what I was referring to.
And that's my personal opinion on this.
Edit:
The more advanced you are, the more you understand the general principles and the more (successful) experience you have, the more you can trust your "jumps".
But even then, it's a good idea to always at least be open to the possibility of not being 100% right.Conversely, the more you're still learning, the more your jumps are likely to lead you astray.
OFF-TOPIC
OFF-TOPIC
What I meant is not so much the over-explanation (albeit that too one may want to transcend once they reach a certain level of expertise and can get a good grasp of the situation without getting lost in too many details. It tends to be more efficient after a certain level) but the over-trust in those explanations.
The tendency to see a connection and/or think of an explanation, and over-trust the explanatory power of that link, or the truthfulness of our own analysis/explanation.
In my opinion, it's a major human bias that we all have and all must be aware of.
I see it over and over again, including from very smart folks who developed major systems of thoughts based on assumptions that are not always and necessarily true, or not as true and as generalizable as they concluded.
It potentially stands in the way of growth because it may lead people astray towards paths that seem true, but may not be.
That's what I was referring to.
And that's my personal opinion on this.
Edit:
The more advanced you are, the more you understand the general principles and the more (successful) experience you have, the more you can trust your "jumps".
But even then, it's a good idea to always at least be open to the possibility of not being 100% right.
Conversely, the more you're still learning, the more your jumps are likely to lead you astray.
OFF-TOPIC
Quote from John Freeman on September 22, 2023, 11:56 amOff-topic
In medicine we call this a “tunnel”. It’s when you think of a diagnosis and not considering other explanations. It’s a pneumonia so we so this this and this. But what if it’s not a pneumonia?
In order to become better clinicians we have to learn to consider alternative explanations. What I noticed is that since humans we think in terms of pattern recognition (system 2 for Kahnemann) to save energy when we see something that looks like something we saw earlier we tend to jump to conclusion. Again I think there was an analytical process (system 1) from you. But if we talk about considering alternatives as a general conversation here is what I think.
/Off-topic
Off-topic
In medicine we call this a “tunnel”. It’s when you think of a diagnosis and not considering other explanations. It’s a pneumonia so we so this this and this. But what if it’s not a pneumonia?
In order to become better clinicians we have to learn to consider alternative explanations. What I noticed is that since humans we think in terms of pattern recognition (system 2 for Kahnemann) to save energy when we see something that looks like something we saw earlier we tend to jump to conclusion. Again I think there was an analytical process (system 1) from you. But if we talk about considering alternatives as a general conversation here is what I think.
/Off-topic
Quote from John Freeman on September 22, 2023, 2:23 pm"do this this and this" and not "so this this and this" of course.
"do this this and this" and not "so this this and this" of course.
Quote from B on September 25, 2023, 11:38 amUpdate:
Success! I have been called today by the director of the bank.
The bank acceded to most (not all) of our demands, and we set a near date to close the matter.
It appears that the “very polite and warm email” we engineered here, which did not contain any legal threat and that so far was the only thing I had sent, contributed to resolving the matter and more than that to reestablish a dialogue with this person.
So the hypothetical that this person needed some “personal reempowerment” comes out confirmed.
Thank you, Lucio and John, for your invaluable help.
Update:
Success! I have been called today by the director of the bank.
The bank acceded to most (not all) of our demands, and we set a near date to close the matter.
It appears that the “very polite and warm email” we engineered here, which did not contain any legal threat and that so far was the only thing I had sent, contributed to resolving the matter and more than that to reestablish a dialogue with this person.
So the hypothetical that this person needed some “personal reempowerment” comes out confirmed.
Thank you, Lucio and John, for your invaluable help.
Quote from John Freeman on September 25, 2023, 12:40 pmBoom, ka-boom and double boom!
You (and TPM) did it again!!
Congrats for your success!
Thanks for your trust and your thanks.
As Lucio says: Upward and Onward.
Boom, ka-boom and double boom!
You (and TPM) did it again!!
Congrats for your success!
Thanks for your trust and your thanks.
As Lucio says: Upward and Onward.
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on September 25, 2023, 3:49 pmBoom!
Nice one.
Avoided wasting resources on an escalation, and maintained a better and more functional relationship.Good reminder that aiming for collaboration beats over-approaching life with an exaggerated "compete and escalate" mindset (and not saying that this is what was happening in this thread, because it wasn't).
Boom!
Nice one.
Avoided wasting resources on an escalation, and maintained a better and more functional relationship.
Good reminder that aiming for collaboration beats over-approaching life with an exaggerated "compete and escalate" mindset (and not saying that this is what was happening in this thread, because it wasn't).
Quote from B on September 25, 2023, 5:13 pmThe incredible learning here for me is that recognizing this person's need for personal reempowerment, and giving it to him, made easier for me - instead of "harder" - to get what I wanted.
Formerly, my thinking was:
- the bank must pay, no matter if I don't give him "some recognition"...
- he doesn't deserve any in any case...
- heck, he may even move faster if I make it clear I'm not "pleased" here...
Instead the opposite seems to have been true.
"Reempowering him", via the tone in my email, made it easier and quicker for me to get what I wanted, and the "legal escalation" option is still on the table.
The incredible learning here for me is that recognizing this person's need for personal reempowerment, and giving it to him, made easier for me - instead of "harder" - to get what I wanted.
Formerly, my thinking was:
- the bank must pay, no matter if I don't give him "some recognition"...
- he doesn't deserve any in any case...
- heck, he may even move faster if I make it clear I'm not "pleased" here...
Instead the opposite seems to have been true.
"Reempowering him", via the tone in my email, made it easier and quicker for me to get what I wanted, and the "legal escalation" option is still on the table.
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on September 25, 2023, 5:22 pmQuote from Bel on September 25, 2023, 5:13 pm"Reempowering him", via the tone in my email, made it easier and quicker for me to get what I wanted, and the "legal escalation" option is still on the table.
Yep, now talking like a true (Mach) strategist :)
Quote from Bel on September 25, 2023, 5:13 pm"Reempowering him", via the tone in my email, made it easier and quicker for me to get what I wanted, and the "legal escalation" option is still on the table.
Yep, now talking like a true (Mach) strategist :)
Quote from John Freeman on September 25, 2023, 6:17 pmMake friends not enemy applies here I think.
It’s like at work I do the same with the people I had issue with. Works like a charm. Maybe I’ll write about it.
Make friends not enemy applies here I think.
It’s like at work I do the same with the people I had issue with. Works like a charm. Maybe I’ll write about it.
