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Banter with male friends: how to be more effective at it?

#1 · June 14, 2020, 4:42 pm

Hi Lucio

As a male, banter tends to come with the territory, now I have an issue as I am not naturally quick witted so struggle to respond effectively, this tends to make me shy away from it a little bit, it's getting even more annoying now I know the power dynamics behind it, for example I was speaking to old friend on the phone the other day and told him about my plan to get a personal training qualification and move to spain. He responded with " you being a personal trainer? It's not really you is it, why do you want to do that they are gay." I responded with with something along the lines of " gay? Since when were all personal trainers gay?

The chat continued and he said a couple of things like " are you going to eat your vegan wrap etc"

Its pissed me off to be honest but I think it may just be me overthinking everything because I am now aware of dynamics all the time?

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#2 · June 16, 2020, 6:30 pm

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on June 16, 2020, 6:30 pm
Hey BV,
Well, yeah, you said it: banter comes with the territory when you're a guy in a group of guys.
You are not wrong in seeing power dynamics in banter: it is a (small) part of the constant jostling for status.
But often it's not bad.
In your case, it wasn't the power move that was bad.
As a matter of fact, I actually laughed at your friend's joke on the vegan wrap: it was an OK joke.
The problem with your friend's attitude was not so much in the power sphere but in the emotional sphere.
He was not being dominant, he was being insensitive.
Big difference.
When someone tells you about their life plans, he is telling you about something deep and important to him.
Turning into a joke is insensitive and breaks rapport.
He could have still made a joke, but then he should have said:
Nanah man, just a joke, but tell me, why is this thing that you wanna move to Spain to be a personal trainer now?
But I wouldn't see any malice in your friend.
Some people just take time to develop emotional intelligence (and some never do). But that doesn't necessarily make them bad people. Just not the kind of guys you can bond more deeply and talk of deeper, more personal stuff.
Getting Better at Bantering
On reacting to banter, here are two ideas for you:
Stay unreactive: if it's a good joke, laugh. If it's an OK joke, just put a slight smile, as if to say "amusing", but don't hit back. You don't lose power if you don't engage in a bantering, and in some circumstances, you can actually lose power if you get too involved in the game (there is one example in Power University in the framing lesson). If more people are bantering with you, that also makes you the center of the attention and it might give you power (unless it's really offensive, but that's a different case)
Come up with a few stock answers you use on rotation: much of male bantering can be grouped into categories like "being weak", or "mother/sister jokes" and, of course, the big one "being gay". You can have 2 or 3 in each category and use the same every time, then end it there.
For example: "your momma wasn't a vegetarian last night, bro" or "(sister name) loved this wrap, bro"
P.S.: I changed your username as it showed your email before.

Hey BV,

Well, yeah, you said it: banter comes with the territory when you're a guy in a group of guys.

You are not wrong in seeing power dynamics in banter: it is a (small) part of the constant jostling for status.
But often it's not bad.

In your case, it wasn't the power move that was bad.
As a matter of fact, I actually laughed at your friend's joke on the vegan wrap: it was an OK joke.

The problem with your friend's attitude was not so much in the power sphere but in the emotional sphere.
He was not being dominant, he was being insensitive.
Big difference.

When someone tells you about their life plans, he is telling you about something deep and important to him.
Turning into a joke is insensitive and breaks rapport.

He could have still made a joke, but then he should have said:

Nanah man, just a joke, but tell me, why is this thing that you wanna move to Spain to be a personal trainer now?

But I wouldn't see any malice in your friend.

Some people just take time to develop emotional intelligence (and some never do). But that doesn't necessarily make them bad people. Just not the kind of guys you can bond more deeply and talk of deeper, more personal stuff.

Getting Better at Bantering

On reacting to banter, here are two ideas for you:

Stay unreactive: if it's a good joke, laugh. If it's an OK joke, just put a slight smile, as if to say "amusing", but don't hit back. You don't lose power if you don't engage in a bantering, and in some circumstances, you can actually lose power if you get too involved in the game (there is one example in Power University in the framing lesson). If more people are bantering with you, that also makes you the center of the attention and it might give you power (unless it's really offensive, but that's a different case)
Come up with a few stock answers you use on rotation: much of male bantering can be grouped into categories like "being weak", or "mother/sister jokes" and, of course, the big one "being gay". You can have 2 or 3 in each category and use the same every time, then end it there.
- For example: "your momma wasn't a vegetarian last night, bro" or "(sister name) loved this wrap, bro"

P.S.: I changed your username as it showed your email before.

Anon_User has reacted to this post.

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#3 · June 19, 2020, 8:39 am

Thanks for the response.

I think that's something to work on for me, being unreactive shows that your not fazed which is half the battle.

Also lucio, in long standing friendships it seems to be very hard to change the dynamic, everyone resorts back to their normal role within the group even if they do not want that role, any tips on gaining more power in these situations?

I've used aggression before and tend to be hot headed but I want to do things differently going forward.

Thanks for the great work.

#4 · June 24, 2020, 11:30 pm

How about, if it's not your thing, some other canned responses to imply they were insensitive while teasing them back playfully like...

- "Ouchhh, nice one man, but really I'm looking forward to..." (Funny, but keeping it more serious to get back to the point of talking about your new job)
- "Haha sounds gay? Well, I guess you would know/takes one to know one! LOL" (Teasing back, light-hearted)

What do you guys think? I was thinking these are only "passive aggressive" if something is really bothering you there and it goes by unaddressed forever. Here that could mean not really being affected by their jabs and realize that they're insensitive to something important to you... but probably trying to keep things light and fun because they're a friend, for what it's worth. Even if it was meant to be an insult, it can be neutralized it a bit by taking it as if it's a joke that doesn't say actually anything about you.

If it's really crossed a line, maybe something more like:
"Dude... That's not cool, this is my job, which is important to me, and you know it's not gay. Get it?" (Keeping it positive that they can take it as something to relate to you better)