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Bean-counters: the gift that was going to the trash anyway
Hello guys,
yesterday I was at my friend A.'s place. Long story short, there were only the two of us. He made some salmon and some some eggplant mush. As I was going home he told me:
Him: do you want some baguette? I'm going to throw it away anyway. Do you want some salmon? Tomorrow I'm going away and I won't be eating it.
Me (after thinking): Sure!
Him: I'll give you a "tupperware" (plastic thing)
However, I think it was a mistake from my part. Like accepting a coffee from my manipulative co-worker. He's the guy who brought up the fact that he gave me 3 cherry tomatoes and a piece of cheese. That's why I thought about it when he offered it to me.
Now I'll make this rule: even if I'm starving of thirsty, I won't accept things from somebody who might use it against me in the future. It usually comes from people who are very money-conscious or bean-counting as Lucio said. So I would rephrase it:
When I identify somebody as a bean-counter, I won't accept things from them when they "offer" it (except if I'm ready to pay it 10 times back it's price) as there are strings attached to the "gift": It is not a gift, it is a power move.
Corollary: a gift from a bean-counter might not be a gift.
He also tried to get a thank you out of me by saying: "we met a lot of people from July". He implied he introduced me to new people. He introduced me to 2 new people, I introduced him to at least 7. That is, if I'm bean-counting ;). I mean that I chose not to say thank you to him for introducing me to F. and B. because I feel that it was a fair exchange.
Very interesting situation, John.
I agree with you with the general rule:
Avoid taking anything from bean-counters, unless you've already given first, or are going to give back soon
If you don't, they will be thinking "damn, he took from me and never gave back, how bad of him".
And the same rule applies to social scalpers, and the same applies to those who are both bean counters and social scalpers (like this guy seems to be).
In this specific case, since the food was going to get wasted, I think you did well to take it because:
- It's better not to throw good food away (in lighter grey since this is a moral consideration that one might exclude)
- The giving was disempowered: by saying that he was going to throw it away, he devalued the giving, which also disempowers from using it against you later on. By the way, this is exactly what good friends/givers do: they make their giving seem less of a big thing, so the recipient is more likely to take it without feeling guilty
- As a test: since his power to bean-count and social scalping is reduced by the premise of "I was going to throw it away", this can serve as a good test to see how far he can go
P.S.: since this is a very good situation for social power dynamics, OK with you if I fix the typo in the title?
Hello Lucio,
thank you for your answer! Thanks also for asking permission to correct the title. Of course! If I make a mistake: for me it's natural to be corrected, it's something I expect and value. So I think you don't need permission from me to correct spelling/syntax mistakes I make, even if I'm the "OP". In this case "things" instead of thinks". Also in english my syntax is not as good as it could be. I'm sure you noticed I make long sentence like the one in the title. They are often difficult to understand. I notice it when I read again what I wrote.
Here are other propositions to improve the title:
- How to deal with bean-counters who give you things they were going throw away anyway?
- How to deal with bean-counters giving you something they were going throw away anyway?
- How to deal with bean-counters offering you a gift they were going throw away anyway?
- How to deal with bean-counters offering you a gift they were going throw away?
- How to deal with bean-counters offering you a gift going to the trash anyway?
- Dealing with bean-counters: the gift that was going to the trash anyway.
- Bean-counters: what to do when being offered a gift they were going throw away?
I highlighted my three favorite titles (shorte&clearer I hope). As said above, you're the one moderating the forum. So if you feel that any of the ones above is better, good! If you find a better one: better!
Thanks for the correction and the feed-back! :)
Dealing with bean-counters: the gift that was going to the trash anyway.
This sounds eye-catching.
Bean counters are annoying.
This reminds me of a woman who told me
Woman: Do you want this food or I will throw it away?
while gesturing at the trash bin and wanted to guilt me into taking the food to not waste food.
Pretty strange encounter.
I smiled and asked her to go ahead.
She didn't dare to throw the food away.
I think she wanted to give me food to gain social credit as well.
I think she wanted to give me food to gain social credit as well.
It's what I discovered through Lucio's resources and that I call now "Imaginary generosity". It's not a real gift.
@lucio: regarding the title, I came back to thank you for identifying my need for respect and respecting it! :)
Matthew: This reminds me of a woman who told me
Woman: Do you want this food or I will throw it away?
I think she wanted to give me food to gain social credit as well.
Yeah, it wasn't the smartest thing to say.
More than social credit though, that was a one-down power move (such as, more than raising herself up, she'd push you down with limited gain for herself).
Think of what it says about you and her, if you were going to take the food that she was going to throw away.
Who throws good food away?
Usually, it's folks who live in financial abundance and/or have too refined a palate to enjoy average food.
But it's a limited gain compared to what it does to the receiver, since even lower class folks these days can afford to throw food away.
Who takes food that goes in the trash?
Usually, it's not refined folks living in financial abundance. Usually, it's more of a homeless thing to get food destined for the trash.
So accepting that gift framed you as a homeless-level (food) taker.
NOTE: This is different than John's case.
In John's case the food was already framed "good food".
In Matthew's case, the woman pointing to the trash was framing the food as "that's where it belongs (unless you intercept it)".
Thanks for explaining the frame very clearly.
Now that you say, it is a very different scenario.
She probably wanted to demote my status for some reason.
I had no idea why though because we don't really work together.
We happened to be in the same building and talk occasionally.
This was a few years ago.
Maybe some politics were going behind the scenes.
Or she enjoyed pushing people down.
The weird things people do to gain power over you.
Quote from Matthew Whitewood on December 20, 2020, 2:41 pmI had no idea why though because we don't really work together.
Maybe some politics were going behind the scenes.
Or she enjoyed pushing people down.
Yes, it's certainly possible there was some sort of premeditation, or being part of a general approach to life to push others down.
But also keep in mind this might have also been pure coincidence, or simple ignorance and lack of social skills on her side, and in truth she wanted to be helpful.
Maybe I'm too good-natured, but I'd tend to lean more towards the latter, than the former.
Even then, it's still good to understand the dynamics, even when it's pure happenstance, so that you can consciously decide how to react, as well as to maintain your power and status.
But also keep in mind this might have also been pure coincidence, or simple ignorance and lack of social skills on her side, and in truth she wanted to be helpful.
I need to remind myself that this could be the case.
My guard shoots up immediately when people's actions put me in a power-down position.
I do agree that leaning towards assuming helpful behaviour is better.
Because, if you don't have much to lose in actuality, you can re-balance the relationship after knowing the person slightly better.
Or suffer some losses when you find out it's a value-taker and fade the person away from your life.
If you hit back too hard at the start, you may miss out on potentially fruitful collaborative relationships.
In hindsight, it was the fact that she did not follow through on throwing the food away that made me suspicious.
Unless she does not know how to offer people food in a helpful way in general.
People do stupid shit.
However, here is mental experiment I do in these kind of situations that might help. I'm thinking:
How would have they reacted if Brad Pitt/Insert famous person was doing this behavior?
I think it tells a lot about the (power) dynamics at play. Example: if you would be a very valuable individual to her, she would have treated you differently.
How a person is treated is a reflection of the value given to this individual by another individual.
I know that once again it sounds harsh and simple, almost obvious. However, I found it to be the truth so far. That is how we recognize somebody of high status: everybody is deferent and (kind of) friendly with them. We give them the best seats, the best etc.
So once again, sorry to be the bearer of bad news: I think in this case it meant she valued you not a lot or that she wanted to make you feel like you had little value. TO HER AT THIS TIME AND PLACE. I put capital letters because it's very important to state that it does not reflect your value as an individual at all.
It's an example of a non-desirable scenario: being around somebody who does not value you.
This is not a win-win scenario. So my opinion is 2 fold:
- Recruitment issue: I think that we should avoid these kinds of individuals if we want to move forward in life, emotionally, mentally, on all levels basically. They engage in lose-win games. Sometimes we are not yet at a spot in life where we can afford to avoid them. However, I think it should be a general strategy to improve our life quality. We should recruit positive individuals outside our jobs. Positive individuals around us makes a positive Life. At least, it helps a lot.
- Self-development issue: I think it's very important for us (as people committed to self-development and wanting to grow socially) to be able to have a default program in our minds: "What does this person want?" This way, we can always gauge how our (perceived) value will be evaluated by the other person. I don't have this mental program running yet, but I'm working on it.
Example: What does this person want? A committed relationship. Am I offering this kind of value? No. So there is a value-mismatch.
If there is no perceived value, then there is no perceived exchange of value. Trade does not happen.
Some of the things above might be obvious to you. However, I think they are worth repeating (for me as well).
But also keep in mind this might have also been pure coincidence, or simple ignorance and lack of social skills on her side, and in truth she wanted to be helpful.
This: could be her mood, how she behaves all the time, habits, anything. It could be your interpretation as well.
Even then, it's still good to understand the dynamics, even when it's pure happenstance, so that you can consciously decide how to react, as well as to maintain your power and status.
This as well. Next level. What can I learn?
