Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on September 13, 2020, 5:29 pm

Very interesting situation, and I think you already interpreted it well.

I'd definitely recommend you to consider #2.

The woman is in self-rejection.
She is rejecting you and being grumpy out of hurt and ego self-protection.

To me, this is less about hitting back, and more about preventing that grumpiness by letting her down "easy". Or, even better, thinking about how you can transition from the date and assessing her as a potential sexual partner, into a platonic friend.

Yes, you might not want her as a friend.
Especially after her low-level power moves.
But this might be a case of "make a friend instead of making an enemy".
Even if you don't want her as a friend, it's better in my opinion to make her a friend, or else you can make an enemy who's gonna talk crap behind your back -like with that "you jumped on me", an obvious power move, and you don't want her to go around telling people that-.

When she said "you jumped on me", I would have spitted out anything that communicated "not true / then built her up / then sought a collaborative frame / then have her confirm.
Some thing like:

You: Ah come on, don't say that (disappointed face, this is the shaming part), that's not what I do and what's not who I am. You're a cool girl, I'm also a cool guy, and we're cool the way we are.
Right?

If she insisted, then you also insist:

You: I don't know, maybe I was drunk, and you know, you're not bad looking, you're a smart girl, you understand these things. But I'm a respectful and cool guy (her eyou make sure there is no misunderstanding of you "forcing yourself" onto anyone) and you know that, right?

This is a Machiavellian approach.

But it's a win-win Machiavellian, so... Great.

If you cannot turn her around as a friend, then you can communicate some attraction even if you don't want her sexually and/or for a relationship. This is the ultimate "building her up".

While usually (usually) you don't want to communicate attraction to a woman you like, you can freely do so with a woman you're not pursuing.
Often, that's enough for her to feel wanted and be cool with you, even if you don't take it a step further. And then you can flirt together when you're out and you might even raise each other's status -what a difference compared to a woman who's grumpy towards you, eh?-.

If she still aims for a relationship and pursues you, then you say that you have a rule of not dating people from the social circle. So you kind of blame the environment, and save her ego.

 

 

Quote from Stef on September 13, 2020, 8:58 pm

While usually (usually) you don't want to communicate attraction to a woman you

you mean not to verbally make it explicit?

as my understanding is to, in some cases, communicate attraction by subtle means, body language and other non verbals, calibrating demostrated attraction as to make it reciprocal: "we are attracted to each other" , unless you are trying a more polarizer strategy ramping  up signs of attraction as it can be contagious and sweep the girl by your intensity if well executed by an "objectively" attractive man.

 

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on September 14, 2020, 4:59 am

Quote from Stef on September 13, 2020, 8:58 pm

While usually (usually) you don't want to communicate attraction to a woman you

you mean not to verbally make it explicit?

as my understanding is to, in some cases, communicate attraction by subtle means, body language and other non verbals, calibrating demostrated attraction as to make it reciprocal: "we are attracted to each other" , unless you are trying a more polarizer strategy ramping  up signs of attraction as it can be contagious and sweep the girl by your intensity if well executed by an "objectively" attractive man.

Yes, correct, I mean verbally explicit.

Otherwise, you're totally right. Plenty of PUA literature is about trying to make her chase and chase without showing attraction, but I also think it's better to go with the approach you're mentioning here.

There is little risk in showing positive signs when she's already shown her hand, while there is far more risk is not showing any attraction, then she stops coming after you, and then you're in the chasing position, trying to win over a woman who has now shut you off.

Quote from John Freeman on October 1, 2020, 5:55 pm

I found this great article about how to react to insults:

1. Anger
2. Acceptance
3. Returning the insult
4. Humor
5. Ignoring the insult
6. Rebuking the insulter

Yesterday I've been called a "nazi" and it affected me because it came from somebody I liked. I think it's a horrible insult even if there is nothing true about it. The mistake I made is that it's a guy who's not been working for 2 years, has low self-esteem and self-confidence (his own words). I've been listening to him and try to give him some hints about mindset. However, I think I pissed him off because I faced him unknowingly with his own unwillingess to change as he actually is comfortable in his situation but does not want to admit it to himself. So he attacked me several times after that. I think it was not done consciously. Still it hurt me because I genuinely believed in his ability to make positive changes in his life.

So it's a bit like the situation above: he kind of self-rejected because I presented him with a path that he was not willing or thought that he was not able to take. After having admitted that I I did not like it, I told him a couple of time that I "forgave him". I actually did. What I want to say is that I openly said that I was giving him my forgiveness to balance the relationship out. Just like the person above, I'll have to be careful with him in the future.

I took the opportunity to explain why I thought it was not funny as I was coming back from Germany and nazism is alive and well over there unfortunately. Extreme left and extreme right are very much a thing in Germany. In Hamburg I also talked with a guy whom his grandfather was in the SS and I could see how it is still a painful subject. So I don't think it's funny. We can make jokes about it, yes, but not insult people with it.

Low self-esteem people can be nasty. I know as I was in their shoes not so long ago. Unconsciously there is an anger towards the other person who feels good about themselves and/or is happy. Misery loves company.

Quote from Kellvo on October 1, 2020, 6:30 pm

Very cool article John! I especially like the part about acceptance. Anger (and confronting/counterattacking) is often the first step, it's a hell of a lot better than taking it lying down. But it still reveals weakness which needs to be addressed and ultimately moved past. Floating above it is better, and being able to courageously laugh in the face of it better still; ultimately, enjoying it, and the person delivering it, while also setting healthy boundaries is the goal I am shooting for.

She sounds like she's still in the anger phase herself. I've seen it a lot from women who aren't used to being rejected; they base their identities on their attractiveness, and when that is threatened they don't take it well at all. Oftentimes they're still attracted to you but angry and hurting at the same time. It's one reason I believe in diversifying your identity and addressing weak points in general, so that a 'hit' in one area doesn't have too much of an affect on you.

I have little patience for such things myself, but it sounds like Lucio's advice is sound and that your idea of choosing a better response to this insult is a good one. Hope it turns out well for everyone involved :)

Quote from John Freeman on October 1, 2020, 6:33 pm

Thanks for the wishes!

The above example is another example, it's a guy, an acquaintance.

Quote from John Freeman on October 1, 2020, 7:51 pm

Something I’m considering is to never show when you’re hurt. I mean not with people you can be vulnerable with. But at work and with acquaintances.

What do you guys think about that?

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 2, 2020, 8:31 am

I'd read that guy saying "you're a nazy" as possibly this translation:

Can you please accept that I'm having a difficult time, without pushing me to do this or that? I want some understanding, not to feel like I'm a failure

It's possible you pushed him too early into the "solution" phase, skipping on the "listen" phase. But I wasn't there, so this is just a guess/possibility.

Quote from John Freeman on October 2, 2020, 5:38 pm

Yes, I think the same. I did listen quite a lot. However, I think he's just not solution-oriented yet. So yes, all he actually wants is understanding.