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Being too dominant makes people dislike you

#1 · April 20, 2022, 7:53 pm

Quote from John Freeman on April 20, 2022, 7:53 pm
Hello guys,
Context: I have a high-power boss. He's head of nephrology at my hospital. He's an executive kind of person. However, I don't feel respected or taken care of when I'm working with you. He has 2 passions: Power and Medicine. So he's very dominant.
For instance, when I present a case to him, he does not let me finish and enters the room where the patient is. And then he takes over and treat me like I'm secondary where I've been doing all the work.
Actually, when a surgeon came for a consult, he let me talk and conclude the consult and told me: "that's normal you did all the work". He was in his role of a leader and trusted me. And he only saw me once! Whereas I've been working with my boss since 6 months now.
My boss is too controlling and it ends up making me dislike him because it makes me feel like he does not trust me enough and does not give me enough autonomy.
This is why I came to the conclusion: when you're too dominant, people will do their best to avoid you.
Why? Because when you're in the vicinity, you will disempower them. That's how I feel.
He also scolded his old boss (took his place) in front of the nurses. Very disempowering as his old boss has tons of experience and is very kind.
I also realised that in a high political environment such as the one I'm in, it's a lot about power (politics). That means that by definition it will be dysfunctional as people cannot speak their mind.
So, it's good to be high power, dominant AND respectful. This is something else than warmth.
When I work with his kind old boss, I feel like I did a good job. When I work with him, I feel like shit. This is also because being too focussed on his own power, it seems like it's an escape from his own insecurities, inadequacies and shame. So he projects his shame onto others.
Of course, I'm a beginner and I have a lot to learn. However, he never treated me like this and makes me feel 99% of the time as being incompetent, which I'm not.
So it's a lesson in Power: being too obsessed with power shows a poor character. He's also a workaholic so I feel like him being the boss and throwing himself into his work is an avoidance through overwork tactic.
I'll give you an example: he explicitly asked me to not write down my overtime. That means I'm not payed in time neither in money for my work. This is highly disrespectful. However, I felt like I had to accept because of his work culture AND because he's writing my performance review. However, this made me choose to leave this hospital, because it's too dysfunctional. There even was an article about our department recently because it was so bad.
Of course, management pretended that it was temporary in another newspaper article and thanked us for our "solidarity". That means being under-staffed in hospital speak. So it's one of the many manipulation of the hospital to make us accept the exploitation.
There are many topic in there. The gist of it is too much focus on power = too much manipulation, too much disrespect. And people don't like it. They will accept it as long as they have to or cannot find a better situation.

Hello guys,

Context: I have a high-power boss. He's head of nephrology at my hospital. He's an executive kind of person. However, I don't feel respected or taken care of when I'm working with you. He has 2 passions: Power and Medicine. So he's very dominant.

For instance, when I present a case to him, he does not let me finish and enters the room where the patient is. And then he takes over and treat me like I'm secondary where I've been doing all the work.

Actually, when a surgeon came for a consult, he let me talk and conclude the consult and told me: "that's normal you did all the work". He was in his role of a leader and trusted me. And he only saw me once! Whereas I've been working with my boss since 6 months now.

My boss is too controlling and it ends up making me dislike him because it makes me feel like he does not trust me enough and does not give me enough autonomy.

This is why I came to the conclusion: when you're too dominant, people will do their best to avoid you.

Why? Because when you're in the vicinity, you will disempower them. That's how I feel.

He also scolded his old boss (took his place) in front of the nurses. Very disempowering as his old boss has tons of experience and is very kind.

I also realised that in a high political environment such as the one I'm in, it's a lot about power (politics). That means that by definition it will be dysfunctional as people cannot speak their mind.

So, it's good to be high power, dominant AND respectful. This is something else than warmth.

When I work with his kind old boss, I feel like I did a good job. When I work with him, I feel like shit. This is also because being too focussed on his own power, it seems like it's an escape from his own insecurities, inadequacies and shame. So he projects his shame onto others.

Of course, I'm a beginner and I have a lot to learn. However, he never treated me like this and makes me feel 99% of the time as being incompetent, which I'm not.

So it's a lesson in Power: being too obsessed with power shows a poor character. He's also a workaholic so I feel like him being the boss and throwing himself into his work is an avoidance through overwork tactic.

I'll give you an example: he explicitly asked me to not write down my overtime. That means I'm not payed in time neither in money for my work. This is highly disrespectful. However, I felt like I had to accept because of his work culture AND because he's writing my performance review. However, this made me choose to leave this hospital, because it's too dysfunctional. There even was an article about our department recently because it was so bad.

Of course, management pretended that it was temporary in another newspaper article and thanked us for our "solidarity". That means being under-staffed in hospital speak. So it's one of the many manipulation of the hospital to make us accept the exploitation.

There are many topic in there. The gist of it is too much focus on power = too much manipulation, too much disrespect. And people don't like it. They will accept it as long as they have to or cannot find a better situation.

Lucio Buffalmano, Growfast and B have reacted to this post.

#2 · April 21, 2022, 10:54 am

Seems my exact past experience in the legal field.

It's a phenomenon of psychological reactance, as Lucio writes on the Dictionary of Power under "power-protecting": https://thepowermoves.com/dictionary-of-power/

These people just enjoy abusing others. It's how they live, and usually it is not confined to their work life. You can only get away.

Lucio Buffalmano, John Freeman and Growfast have reacted to this post.

#3 · April 21, 2022, 11:12 am

I am noticing that more people are becoming demanding and domineering especially men these days.

I wonder if this is due to the whole Redpill movement where the whole ideology seems to be black-white/win-lose with women and they tend to carry it everywhere as a mindset.

Lucio Buffalmano, John Freeman and B have reacted to this post.

#4 · April 21, 2022, 11:31 am

Yep, it absolutely does.

I think PU discusses this exact issue in the workplace: you get the sense that the dominant man gets things done.

But in the long run, in truth, he drives away all the best talent.

You get some more leeway in dating women as a dominant man, but even there, it's just higher odds to combine high power with a "pull-up" attitude.

Quote from John Freeman on April 20, 2022, 7:53 pm
So, it's good to be high power, dominant AND respectful. This is something else than warmth.

I personally do include that in the warmth approach though.

But it's entirely possible the way I describe it is more on the "friendly" side, rather than also including "respect", "making people feel valued", "empower (rather than disempower)", etc.

Let me know if that's the case and I'll make a note to fix in the next revision.

John Freeman and B have reacted to this post.

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#5 · April 21, 2022, 11:31 am

Thank you very much guys for your answers.

I discussed with my boss about maybe doing a thesis in medicine.

That would officially give me the title of “Doctor in medicine”.

However, I would have to work with him at least a couple more years and be overworked.

I don’t want to do an academical career so it would me mostly for my own satisfaction of having the title and be really a doctor (vs a physician).

However, I’m thinking this might be not worth working with him for such a long time.

He’s excellent in his field. However, from where I am in life I feel that I prioritize the quality of people I work with. Above title, prestige and professional opportunities.

Working at a university hospital made me realize that I care more for a simple happy life over professional achievement and prestige (and overwork and loneliness).

So I think I won’t do the thesis.

Edit: I’m curious about what you think about that as well.

Edit: I noticed a few mistakes in my original post (wrong pronouns) but you guys understood it all.

Life is short.

#6 · April 21, 2022, 11:36 am

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on April 21, 2022, 11:31 am
Quote from John Freeman on April 20, 2022, 7:53 pm
So, it's good to be high power, dominant AND respectful. This is something else than warmth.
I personally do include that in the warmth approach though.
But it's entirely possible the way I describe it is more on the "friendly" side, rather than also including "respect", "making people feel valued", "empower (rather than disempower)", etc.

I was wondering. Yeah I think it’s worth adding these traits in warmth. As a learner it would make it more clear for me.

Thank you very much for your answer Lucio!

#7 · April 21, 2022, 11:43 am

To add something: I can safely say that he is quite abusive in the end.

When my supervisor had a torn ACL he harassed her by email until she cut her sick leave to come back working.

She came to work in crutches after a couple of weeks instead of the 6 weeks sick leave that was recommended by her doctor.

So many abusive people in my hospital!

#8 · April 21, 2022, 8:06 pm

Quote from B on April 21, 2022, 8:06 pm
Quote from John Freeman on April 21, 2022, 11:31 am
I discussed with my boss about maybe doing a thesis in medicine.
That would officially give me the title of “Doctor in medicine”.
However, I would have to work with him at least a couple more years and be overworked.
…
However, I’m thinking this might be not worth working with him for such a long time.
He’s excellent in his field. However, from where I am in life I feel that I prioritize the quality of people I work with. Above title, prestige and professional opportunities.
Working at a university hospital made me realize that I care more for a simple happy life over professional achievement and prestige (and overwork and loneliness).
So I think I won’t do the thesis.
Edit: I’m curious about what you think about that as well.
Thesis
Could you do the thesis with someone else?
The problem with a person like this is that he would almost certainly use the additional power he would have over you due to the thesis to abuse you more. IMO, and I’m someone who endured 10 years of constant abuse in two former law firms before opening my practice, it’s not worth it.
Also consider that the more you learn about abuse and power dynamics, the more it will be intolerable to you (as it should be). And that some abusive dynamics are unfortunately only understandable once you are out of the relationship.
But the thesis may be worth it per se, if you can do it with someone else.
Happy life vs professional success
On your preference for a happy simple life over professional achievement: my take is that you see a dichotomy here where there is none in reality.
Meaning, your stressful situation is not due to your profession per se, but to the abuse you are probably receiving from your boss. I can assure you that once you will be out of that relationship, you will start to see that professional achievement and a happy life are perfectly compatible.
On the talent of the abusive boss
Another thought: of course I cannot be sure here about your situation, but in my experience many of the people like your boss only appear to be excellent in their field; in reality he may be appropriating most of your talent, and these people also usually cut many corners and tend to destroy their reputation over time. While scapegoating those around them as much as they can.
So associating with them in the long term is a real high risk. In my personal case, I had a strong sensation my boss was starting to go down and wanted to bring me down in his place.

Quote from John Freeman on April 21, 2022, 11:31 am
I discussed with my boss about maybe doing a thesis in medicine.
That would officially give me the title of “Doctor in medicine”.
However, I would have to work with him at least a couple more years and be overworked.
…
However, I’m thinking this might be not worth working with him for such a long time.
He’s excellent in his field. However, from where I am in life I feel that I prioritize the quality of people I work with. Above title, prestige and professional opportunities.
Working at a university hospital made me realize that I care more for a simple happy life over professional achievement and prestige (and overwork and loneliness).
So I think I won’t do the thesis.
Edit: I’m curious about what you think about that as well.

Thesis

Could you do the thesis with someone else?

The problem with a person like this is that he would almost certainly use the additional power he would have over you due to the thesis to abuse you more. IMO, and I’m someone who endured 10 years of constant abuse in two former law firms before opening my practice, it’s not worth it.

Also consider that the more you learn about abuse and power dynamics, the more it will be intolerable to you (as it should be). And that some abusive dynamics are unfortunately only understandable once you are out of the relationship.

But the thesis may be worth it per se, if you can do it with someone else.

Happy life vs professional success

On your preference for a happy simple life over professional achievement: my take is that you see a dichotomy here where there is none in reality.

Meaning, your stressful situation is not due to your profession per se, but to the abuse you are probably receiving from your boss. I can assure you that once you will be out of that relationship, you will start to see that professional achievement and a happy life are perfectly compatible.

On the talent of the abusive boss

Another thought: of course I cannot be sure here about your situation, but in my experience many of the people like your boss only appear to be excellent in their field; in reality he may be appropriating most of your talent, and these people also usually cut many corners and tend to destroy their reputation over time. While scapegoating those around them as much as they can.

So associating with them in the long term is a real high risk. In my personal case, I had a strong sensation my boss was starting to go down and wanted to bring me down in his place.

John Freeman has reacted to this post.

#9 · April 21, 2022, 8:21 pm

Thank you very much for your perspective, it is very helpful.

Regarding his skills: he is very very good. One of the smartest person I met. He’s both good at medicine and appearances. He’s not one of these phonies. He’s domineering, abusive and controlling, yes. But he’s the real deal in his field. I’m sure of it.

Edit: thanks to your feed-back I made up my mind. I’m not going to do the thesis with him. He proposed me 2 projects and we did not do anything concrete yet.

I will blame it on my upcoming exam. I will say that I’m realizing that for me it’s not the right moment. I want to focus on my exam. Then I will not act on it. I know he won’t forget but we just discussed it a couple of time. I did not agree to anything.

You’re right I will tolerate it less and less with time. My instinct is telling me that it’s not the right move for me. I can always contact him in a year if I change my mind.

Because of the current crisis the whole institution lost credibility. So I have more bargaining power.

B has reacted to this post.

#10 · April 21, 2022, 8:23 pm

Quote from John Freeman on April 21, 2022, 8:21 pm
Thank you very much for your perspective, it is very helpful.
Regarding his skills: he is very very good. One of the smartest person I met. He’s both good at medicine and appearances. He’s not one of these phonies. He’s domineering, abusive and controlling, yes. But he’s the real deal in his field. I’m sure of it.

That is exactly what I used to say about my former boss before leaving. I’m not joking John.

Of course every situation is different, but now I think that real professional skills cannot go together with being abusive. A very wide portion of being a professional (and especially a physician) consists of honesty, empathy, care for the client (patient), continued education, and so on.

These things are simply impossible for an abusive controlling person. These people hit an inevitable ceiling. You, on the other hand, have unlimited potential.

John Freeman has reacted to this post.