Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 5, 2021, 3:05 am

Quote from John Freeman on February 4, 2021, 8:43 pm

However, I learned that if one is too much of a servant, then you can be treated as a servant.

(...)

I don't want to enter in a power struggle. Or maybe should I? I don't know.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Servant leadership is easier to ease into once people do recognize and respect you already as the leader, and/or recognize and respect you for the skills/authority/expertise/ability to deliver the goods -even if the "goods" is simply having a good time together-.

I prefer bloodless ways of getting to leadership positions, as it's usually better for most, including the group and the leader himself -you don't make enemies and you don't end up leading on the bad precedent of you "fighting" for that position-.

But it's possible that some micro-escalations here and there might happen if there is some dominant people in the group and they see you as a challenge.

The great thing about group of friends is that you don't have to be too afraid of the leader as it might be the case in organized crime, dictatorships, or even business settings (the former 2 by killing, the latter one by firing or demoting).
So you can avoid big escalations many times, and then eventually if you're doing good, it will become obvious to everyone there is a new leader and there is nothing the old one can do about it.

Quote from John Freeman on February 5, 2021, 5:45 am

Thanks, it's helpful. That's the mistake I've been doing with leadership many times over: being impatient. It takes time to be recognized as the leader. It's important to get to know each group member and build trust. It's important to get to know people first because you can end up not recognizing bad from rotten apples. And it takes time.

So I think I'll focus more on having a good time with my friends, continue to organize events and to provide leadership when need while avoiding nasty social climber A.

I was right to befriend the less dominant group members. And I was wrong not to befriend enough the most dominant group members. They are the ones who are able to shift and drive the group dynamics and. For instance like turning the group against you. They also are the ones who are going to be more on their guards as they see you as a threat. So I think that's what I have to work on: building trust.

So, first I have to be a leader and not try to be THE leader. I'm a leader in a group. And what happens happens. I organize things so people can have a good time and I show my strength by not letting people pull power moves on me. And with time, I can be recognized as the leader. But I'm still "the new guy", it does not matter my age or my skills. I have to earn the leadership and the first way to do it is to be a loyal group member and provide value.

Just as you said previously: I can win when I'm being attacked by going higher. And time will be my ally.

However, this is also what I learned: in a group of friends I must change my stance to a more detached stance. I have to be more in control. Or otherwise I'll just be another group member and that's no my favorite role as I think this was clear. I'm going to experiment with this.

Aha moment! In a group where fun is what gets us together, then fun is what I'll be judged on. I think I need to experiment with things. Experiment with different techniques to defend: surfacing, shaming, mirroring.

I think I need to adopt the learner mindset in this instance: go in these social encounters to learn. So there will be less pressure and I'll learn more. To decide beforehand what I'll be experimenting with. To treat these social encounters as social experiments. Play the Long game and not take it so seriously. This is where I'll go the furthest.

So in Summary:

1. Build trust: this is the weakest point as people might have seen me as machiavellian (which I was) and not sincere (I am sincere).
2. Show leadership: this is good
3. Bring value: this is good
4. Defend against dominant group members: this is also a weak point of mine. I think I can do it I just have to get over my fear of being rejected and just defend. It's my old fear of conflict which I have not getting rid of completely yet.

I really must focus on bringing the fun to group members and not so much on leadership. So I have two roles:

1. As a leader: already talked about.
2. As a group member: not to let myself walked over.

I think that if I do the things above, I'll be good.

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on February 5, 2021, 7:23 am

Personal Example in Business Context

The great thing about group of friends is that you don't have to be too afraid of the leader as it might be the case in organized crime, dictatorships, or even business settings (the former 2 by killing, the latter one by firing or demoting).

This one I'm afraid of at the moment.
I have been focusing on making plans, executing, facilitating the team towards a direction.
One business partner does bring value to the table, but, at the same time, he's playing games to come across leader-like rather than advancing the team forward.
For example, he will take some plans I have prepared & shared with the team in advance and run with it during the meeting.
He does this in a savvy way with the frame of "in the interest of the team" so I find it hard to point out.

Certainly, there are overlaps in leading vs building the perception of leading.
But there's some trade-off in maximising one over the other.

But it's possible that some micro-escalations here and there might happen if there is some dominant people in the group and they see you as a challenge.

I think this is the case in my situation.
He likes the smart-alec approach to dominance.
He is good at framing himself as knowing a lot but actually does not really know a lot.
Which is actually very bad to the team.

Coming Back to John's Situation

I don't think that it's actually bad to come across as dominant and assertive.
Because that actually does the team a favour if you are the person who offers the most value to the team.
The unfortunate fact is that the person who offers the most value may not end up as the person at the top of a social circle.
Your assertiveness actually prevents these value-taking individuals from rising to the top.
This is a value-adding behaviour towards society in general.

I think that our situations could have quite a lot of similarities.
We need to draw boundaries against value-taking behaviour and encourage more value-adding behaviour.

From my perspective, you already seem to be bringing a lot of value to the team.
Organising events, brining people together, facilitating the event, building trust.
All these activities are value-adding in general.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 5, 2021, 12:35 pm

Quote from John Freeman on February 5, 2021, 5:45 am

• So, first I have to be a leader and not try to be THE leader. I'm a leader in a group.

(...)

• But I'm still "the new guy", it does not matter my age or my skills. I have to earn the leadership and the first way to do it is to be a loyal group member and provide value.

Yes to both of these.
The first one is a great mindset switch, actually.

And on being "new", absolutely, there is a "warm-up" period anyone must go through.

On befriending less dominant people first, I think it might actually be a good move.
Some people go straight for the most dominant ones and/or for the leader, and that can come across as ruthless social climbing, as if to sub-communicate "fuck all these other pawns, I only care about the top guy".

Of course, everything in moderation, if one shuns the most dominant members altogether, then that's a different case.

Quote from John Freeman on February 5, 2021, 7:27 pm

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on February 5, 2021, 7:23 am

Personal Example in Business Context

The great thing about group of friends is that you don't have to be too afraid of the leader as it might be the case in organized crime, dictatorships, or even business settings (the former 2 by killing, the latter one by firing or demoting).

This one I'm afraid of at the moment.
I have been focusing on making plans, executing, facilitating the team towards a direction.
One business partner does bring value to the table, but, at the same time, he's playing games to come across leader-like rather than advancing the team forward.
For example, he will take some plans I have prepared & shared with the team in advance and run with it during the meeting.
He does this in a savvy way with the frame of "in the interest of the team" so I find it hard to point out.

Certainly, there are overlaps in leading vs building the perception of leading.
But there's some trade-off in maximising one over the other.

But it's possible that some micro-escalations here and there might happen if there is some dominant people in the group and they see you as a challenge.

I think this is the case in my situation.
He likes the smart-alec approach to dominance.
He is good at framing himself as knowing a lot but actually does not really know a lot.
Which is actually very bad to the team.

In your case, I'm afraid only time can help. I would advise to focus on your own self-development to become higher quality, to continue to study social skills and power dynamics. In time, this individual will make a mistake that will turn against himself. And at this moment you'll be ready to lead the team out of the mess he will have put you in.

Coming Back to John's Situation

I don't think that it's actually bad to come across as dominant and assertive.

Huge shift in mindset: It's ok do be dominant and assertive. I think I was not ok with that. Thanks a lot. (see Mindset sub-forum for credit)

Because that actually does the team a favour if you are the person who offers the most value to the team.

The unfortunate fact is that the person who offers the most value may not end up as the person at the top of a social circle.

That was my mistake: to believe that giving value over and over would be enough. That's not the case. I have to be the most dominant individual who gives the most value to the group

Your assertiveness actually prevents these value-taking individuals from rising to the top.
This is a value-adding behaviour towards society in general.

I think that our situations could have quite a lot of similarities.
We need to draw boundaries against value-taking behaviour and encourage more value-adding behaviour.

Definitely. That is my goal as a leader.

From my perspective, you already seem to be bringing a lot of value to the team.
Organising events, brining people together, facilitating the event, building trust.
All these activities are value-adding in general.

Thank you for your support!

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 5, 2021, 12:35 pm

Of course, everything in moderation, if one shuns the most dominant members altogether, then that's a different case.

Important point: a mistake that I won't be doing. I'll keep my enemies closer.

Thanks guys for your feed-back, this is very helpful for upgrading my mindset.

Quote from John Freeman on February 6, 2021, 8:16 am

The unfortunate fact is that the person who offers the most value may not end up as the person at the top of a social circle.

I thought it again and if I want to be the leader of this group. I first have to become the judge. That what the others (housemate R. and nasty social climber A.) are doing. I have to become the positive judge of this group. To encourage and support. And on the other side to punish bad behavior. That's the solution I was looking for. Now it's clear in my mind.

Quote from John Freeman on February 6, 2021, 6:37 pm

Here is a cool resource about 3 ways to be a leader in your group.

I think it's quite accurate. Any comments guys?