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Body language play - take over the conversation

#1 · January 22, 2021, 10:29 pm

I ve multiple times over the years had women come up touch the arm of the manager I was talking with and just start talking to them ignoring me.

If it's a male manager they ll sometimes do a little scratch on the arm like a kitten

They also stand very close and point their feet towards the manager. Which is almost showing me the back.

I ve seen this in dating too where some cock blocker tries to pull her friend away.

It's a tough one to counter as it's all non verbal.

#2 · January 23, 2021, 1:16 am

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 23, 2021, 1:16 am
Yeah, not cool.
HOW THE MANAGER SHOULD HANDLE IT
A good manager there should put his hand up towards the interloper and say "wait a minute".
That's proper assertiveness to enforce basic rules of respect and (social) decency.
But few will do it.
Especially not if it's a pretty woman.
Women might actually do it more often than man, and the pretty ones are taking advantage of their sexual power.
In my opinion, the fact that she might be leveraging her looks or gender only makes it more urgent that one stops her in her tracks: should serve as a lesson that looks (or a vagina) doesn't give a free pass for impoliteness.
HOW TO HANDLE IT
And it's indeed not easy to handle it.
The issue with it is that if they do, it's because they are nonverbally framing us as "lower social status", and people always find it hard to act when they're framed as lower social status.
A few ways:
Assertively defend your right to speak: "excuse me, I was talking to X, mind waiting a minute?"
Assertively defend your right to speak nonverbally: wave a hand in front of her and say "excuse me", as if to say "don't do that, there is a conversation going on here
Leave: if it was them who needed something from you, then let them come to you later. At that point, you can either go assertive, or go more indirect "yeah, sorry X, you two started talking and I have a very busy day"
Assertively address it later on: go to the person who interrupted and say "no personal feelings, but please next time don't interrupt me again". This is better if the manager was very high level and you don't want to take the risk of doing in front of him and/or you're not sure you maybe interrupting something that was very urgent and you weren't aware of
Overall, it might seem very bold to do any of the above, but I'd personally advise going for it.
Never going for it is what in PU is referred to as "death by a thousand cuts". You let it slip once, and it seems small and inconsequential. But it adds, and then it becomes more and more a reality that they are higher up than you are, and it becomes harder and harder to react.

Yeah, not cool.

HOW THE MANAGER SHOULD HANDLE IT

A good manager there should put his hand up towards the interloper and say "wait a minute".
That's proper assertiveness to enforce basic rules of respect and (social) decency.
But few will do it.

Especially not if it's a pretty woman.
Women might actually do it more often than man, and the pretty ones are taking advantage of their sexual power.

In my opinion, the fact that she might be leveraging her looks or gender only makes it more urgent that one stops her in her tracks: should serve as a lesson that looks (or a vagina) doesn't give a free pass for impoliteness.

HOW TO HANDLE IT

And it's indeed not easy to handle it.

The issue with it is that if they do, it's because they are nonverbally framing us as "lower social status", and people always find it hard to act when they're framed as lower social status.

A few ways:

Assertively defend your right to speak: "excuse me, I was talking to X, mind waiting a minute?"
Assertively defend your right to speak nonverbally: wave a hand in front of her and say "excuse me", as if to say "don't do that, there is a conversation going on here
Leave: if it was them who needed something from you, then let them come to you later. At that point, you can either go assertive, or go more indirect "yeah, sorry X, you two started talking and I have a very busy day"
Assertively address it later on: go to the person who interrupted and say "no personal feelings, but please next time don't interrupt me again". This is better if the manager was very high level and you don't want to take the risk of doing in front of him and/or you're not sure you maybe interrupting something that was very urgent and you weren't aware of

Overall, it might seem very bold to do any of the above, but I'd personally advise going for it.
Never going for it is what in PU is referred to as "death by a thousand cuts". You let it slip once, and it seems small and inconsequential. But it adds, and then it becomes more and more a reality that they are higher up than you are, and it becomes harder and harder to react.

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#3 · January 23, 2021, 1:26 am

Thanks Lucio - I agree totally. This to me is a mini-show down. In the words of the great Ivan Lendl - I didn't invite my opponent to the net.

I think all the tactics you shared are brilliant.

Only thing I'm wondering if you go with #4 is how you control the damaging perception in front of the manager? Most managers have contempt for people who don't stand up for themselves.

What non-verbals would you suggest to flag to the manager that you're not stupid - you know what's going on and you're just not making a fuss because of respect for the manager?

#4 · January 23, 2021, 1:40 am

Quote from Transitioned on January 23, 2021, 1:26 am
TOnly thing I'm wondering if you go with #4 is how you control the damaging perception in front of the manager? Most managers have contempt for people who don't stand up for themselves.

Yeah, great question, a few things you can do:

Ask him if it was something urgent: if he says "no", then you can add "OK, I'll talk to her later not to interrupt again then. Anyway, about... ". If he says "yes", you can say "OK, glad I allowed her to go first, then" ("allowed" = you were keenly aware of what was happening and taking actions to stop it was in the cards)
Make an annoyed facial expression, shake your head, wave your hand towards her (should make a video of this eventually): as if to nonverbally saying "what the fuck was that", then resume talking
As soon as he's done, say "OK, thanks for getting back to me, I'll talk to her later to wait for her turn next time": and then you just get back to business. This "protects his power" to choose who to give priority to, and tells him that you are holding her responsible and will take appropriate action. It can be a good idea politically so it doesn't seem like you're blaming him

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