Quote from Ali Scarlett on February 17, 2022, 1:44 pm

Hi Bel,

I'm not sure this is a power move because I feel like it depends.

In regards to the way they're fielding their ask, it can certainly feel like a power move. It almost feels like the first question of "where are you headed for the holidays" is a setup question to back you into a corner.

But, think if, for example, it's a conversation with a close friend that you have a great rapport and social capital with. In that case, it might've been casual conversation where they use that topic of travel to segue into asking for a favor from a friend. The keyword here is "favor" though, which I think is the real power move.

None of the examples above show the asker communicating that this would be a favor or something they'd be grateful for. And, that implied entitlement can be a social exchange manipulation that denies you your social credit.

To briefly state what not to do, I used to negotiate their ask. When I first found TPM, I learned the "Never Say No" approach from a Yale college course and assumed it would be a good all-season workhorse. Here's what made it a mistake for cases like this one:

• WIIFT fail: A social exchange negotiation with an old partner that ended in a lose-lose

In short: it's typically better to simply say "no" to unfair asks.

However, as with anything, there are exceptions. Such as, if it wasn't a small souvenir but a bigger exchange. In that case, it depends on how much upside there is for you:

• What's in it for them guys, WIIFT, never forget it!: When to use "Never Say No"

So, here are some ideas on how to assertively say "no" and keep rapport:

#1. Reject the whole category (not the specific request)

Them: "I'd really like a souvenir from that country. Can you bring back one for me?"

You: "I'm not picking up any souvenirs over the holdiays this year, but there might be some ways you can get one online."

#2. Validate them before saying "no"

Them: "I'd really like a souvenir from that country. Can you bring back one for me?"

You: "I understand and I really like helping you, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with that. Maybe next time."

#3. Say “yes” to your priorities

Them: "I'd really like a souvenir from that country. Can you bring back one for me?"

You: "I like helping you, but all my free time over the holidays is focused on taking some me time."

#4. Point them in a different direction

Them: "I'd really like a souvenir from that country. Can you bring back one for me?"

You: "I wouldn’t feel comfortable with that, but I know a website where you can get some authentic ones for a really good price. They're great."

#5. Helper of last resort technique

Them: "I'd really like a souvenir from that country. Can you bring back one for me?"

You: "Let me be frank man, I’m going to be overwhelmed over the holidays. Let’s do this: try to look for other options, and if you truly can’t figure out a way to get one, then get back to me and we’ll see if we can find a way."

Quote from B on February 17, 2022, 2:00 pm

Hi Ali! Thank you for your help on this.

So, from your post, I get that a way to address it would be to surface the "favor" one is doing for them, while still accepting the request:

Them: I really like [something, but I am not able to speak clearly and convey how grateful I am for your favor] from that country. Can you bring back one for me?

Me: You know, I usually don't bring souvenirs back. But knowing how you'd do the same and even more for me if I asked, and how we value each other's good friendship, I will gladly search for what you are looking for, buy it and bring it back to you as a gift on my part.

EDIT: from your examples below, I realize that this "express talk" about fairness and friendship I came about with is too much and probably out of place in a context like this, where people after all are speaking of souvenirs. The above could easily be reframed as unneeded bean counting, so it's best to avoid.

Quote from Ali Scarlett on February 17, 2022, 2:15 pm

Quote from Bel on February 17, 2022, 2:00 pm

Hi Ali! Thank you for your help on this.

So, to rephrase your thoughts, you are suggesting that a way to address it would be to surface the "favor" I am doing for them, while still accepting:

Them: I really like [something, but I am not able to speak clearly and convey how grateful I am for you favor] from that country. Can you bring back one for me?

Me: You know, I usually don't bring souvenirs back. But knowing how you'd do the same and even more for me if I asked, and how we value each other's good friendship, I will gladly search for what you are looking for, buy it and bring it back to you as a gift on my part.

That's one way to go about it.

I'd personally recommend simply denying their game (see above). But, if you want to, you can social credit inflate as well to rebalance things:

#1. Frame it as exceptional

Them: "I'd really like a souvenir from that country. Can you bring back one for me?"

You: "I usually don't bring back souvenirs. But, I'll make an exception for you, man (smile)."

#2. Frame it as limited

Them: "I'd really like a souvenir from that country. Can you bring back one for me?"

You: "Well, you know how popular the souvenirs are in (country), they practically fly off the shelves. But, I'll do my best to get my hands on one for you."

Then, wait to hear what they say. They denied you your social credit when they debt-erased and you reclaimed your social credit when you credit-inflated. So, now it would be more of a win-win to get them the souvenir.

So, if you pay attention to their response, it could tell you a lot about them as far as how much they believe in fairness.

Another option would be to do some direct exchange talk as a way of fair value social marketing:

Them: "I'd really like a souvenir from that country. Can you bring back one for me?"

You: "Sure man, I'll do it as a favor. You owe me for this (smile)."

Quote from B on February 17, 2022, 2:32 pm

Thank you Ali, learning so many powerful ways to answer is very helpful. And your suggestions are much more polite and effective than what I had thought about.

So we could say that there could be a graduation of ways to answer this request:

1. when the request shows entitlement and ingratitude on the part of the asker, or if you don't know the asker well and it feels like a "test of compliance", it is better to just say "no" in a polite way by reframing with one of the techniques you shared above:

#1. Reject the whole category (not the specific request)

Them: "I'd really like a souvenir from that country. Can you bring back one for me?"

You: "I'm not picking up any souvenirs over the holdiays this year, but there might be some ways you can get one online."

#2. Validate them before saying "no"

Them: "I'd really like a souvenir from that country. Can you bring back one for me?"

You: "I understand and I really like helping you, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with that. Maybe next time."

#3. Say “yes” to your priorities

Them: "I'd really like a souvenir from that country. Can you bring back one for me?"

You: "I like helping you, but all my free time over the holidays is focused on taking some me time."

#4. Point them in a different direction

Them: "I'd really like a souvenir from that country. Can you bring back one for me?"

You: "I wouldn’t feel comfortable with that, but I know a website where you can get some authentic ones for a really good price. They're great."

#5. Helper of last resort technique

Them: "I'd really like a souvenir from that country. Can you bring back one for me?"

You: "Let me be frank man, I’m going to be overwhelmed over the holidays. Let’s do this: try to look for other options, and if you truly can’t figure out a way to get one, then get back to me and we’ll see if we can find a way."

2. if the ask is really impolite (e.g.: "Remember to get me a souvenir", maybe said in front of other people as well), one could think of going with the "shame" move or the other ideas along that line, which are more forceful:

• shame them

Them: Remember to bring back to me [a useless souvenir to power move on you and show I'm the boss here] from that country.

Me: Yes of course. Will you give me the money in cash or do you need my bank coordinates for a wire transfer?

Them: What? It's a souvenir!

Me: A souvenir is when I go somewhere, see something, and think "This is something I'd really like to bring back to X", and then do so of my own initiative. If you instead ask for something in advance, it is an order.

Them: You are stingy!

Me: Yeah, yeah, I see now. You were trying to get an order for free. You know they have websites that sell that stuff you like. Anyways...

• outright refuse

Them: Remember to bring back to me [a useless souvenir to power move on you and show I'm the boss here] from that country.

Me: Unfortunately I will have a very tight schedule while traveling, and don't think I will be able to even enter a souvenir shop. But in the unlikely case that an occasion comes, of course.

• bullshit philosopher's frame

Them: Remember to bring back to me [a useless souvenir to power move on you and show I'm the boss here] from that country.

Me: I would gladly do so, but I have a pet peeve about that thing. You know, these souvenirs you like are probably made by poor people who work for very little pay, and buying them probably encourages an industry of slavery. But maybe I will be able to find something else for you.

3. if on the other hand the person asking is already a good friend, and you think he is just miswording his request or making a social faux pas, you could go with the credit-inflating techniques you shared, and accept the request (and also, as you say, look for signs of gratitude and rebalancing on their part):

#1. Frame it as exceptional

Them: "I'd really like a souvenir from that country. Can you bring back one for me?"

You: "I usually don't bring back souvenirs. But, I'll make an exception for you, man (smile)."

#2. Frame it as limited

Them: "I'd really like a souvenir from that country. Can you bring back one for me?"

You: "Well, you know how popular the souvenirs are in (country), they practically fly off the shelves. But, I'll do my best to get my hands on one for you."

#3. Direct exchange talk

Them: "I'd really like a souvenir from that country. Can you bring back one for me?"

You: "Sure man, I'll do it as a favor. You owe me for this (smile)."

Personally, I would never ask a person to bring back a souvenir from one of his trips, and all the more a specific souvenir; that's one of the reasons why I find it to be a power move. Maybe if the request was about a souvenir to be chosen by the traveller, I would interpret it slightly differently.

But now, from your answer, I understand that this also depends on the social balance of the relationship. For example, if a person did something for you in the past, asking for a souvenir may even be a "favor" he is making to you, allowing you to rebuild balance in an easy way.

Quote from Ali Scarlett on February 17, 2022, 5:46 pm

Quote from Bel on February 17, 2022, 2:32 pm

So we could say that there could be a graduation of ways to answer this request...

We could say that, yes. However, since this ask for a souvenir also has an element of tasking, I'd say that a good way to determine how to handle it would be with this forum thread below because the dynamics are a bit similar:

• "Can you please take my picture" power dynamics

This is also a part of why I'd personally prefer to say "no".

They're tasking you with getting them a souvenir. So, even if you're able to make it a win-win social exchange, it could still end up as a win-lose power exchange if you're not careful because you're letting them take unofficial authority over you that they don't have the right to take.

Quote from Bel on February 17, 2022, 2:32 pm

Personally, I would never ask a person to bring back a souvenir from one of his trips, and all the more a specific souvenir; that's one of the reasons why I find it to be a power move. Maybe if the request was about a souvenir to be chosen by the traveller, I would interpret it slightly differently.

I can definitely understand that. At the same time, keep in mind that cultural differences can make things more complicated than they might seem.

Judging requests based on whether or not you would make the same request isn't always a good metric to use because when you meet people from different walks of life, the circumstances can change. What might be an unusual request to you is a normal request to them, and vice-versa (such is the beauty of intercultural exchanges and, generally, meeting new people :).

So, in my opinion, it's less about what you might think is a "normal" request, and more about whether or not the request fits within your boundaries of fairness and respect — regardless of how unusual it may seem.

That said, I agree that tasking someone with getting a specific souvenir is a big ask. And, possibly even disrespectful.

Think of what that might communicate if it were done to a busy, high-value individual:

Them: "I'd really like a souvenir from that country. Can you bring back one for me?"

You: (thinking) You want me to take time out of my busy holiday that I've already planned, to travel around town searching for a specific item that you want, and give nothing in return?

More than a power move, it feels like it's bad social etiquette. And, one that a high-quality individual who values their time and freedom wouldn't allow or agree to.

Quote from B on February 17, 2022, 6:18 pm

I totally agree with your post; I would go farther than you however, on this:

Quote from Ali Scarlett on February 17, 2022, 5:46 pm

Think of what that might communicate if it were done to a busy, high-value individual:

Them: "I'd really like a souvenir from that country. Can you bring back one for me?"

You: (thinking) You want me to take time out of my busy holiday that I've already planned, to travel around town searching for a specific item that you want, and give nothing in return?

More than a power move, it feels like it's bad social etiquette. And, one that a high-quality individual who values their time and freedom wouldn't allow or agree to.

I feel this applies to everyone, not just to the super-busy holiday-goers. It's just plain disrespectful to ask to bring back a souvenir, unless the relationship is very close (e.g. a long-term friendship, a wife, etc.).

Quote from Ali Scarlett on February 17, 2022, 6:35 pm

Quote from Bel on February 17, 2022, 6:18 pm

I totally agree with your post; I would go farther than you however, on this:

Quote from Ali Scarlett on February 17, 2022, 5:46 pm

Think of what that might communicate if it were done to a busy, high-value individual:

Them: "I'd really like a souvenir from that country. Can you bring back one for me?"

You: (thinking) You want me to take time out of my busy holiday that I've already planned, to travel around town searching for a specific item that you want, and give nothing in return?

More than a power move, it feels like it's bad social etiquette. And, one that a high-quality individual who values their time and freedom wouldn't allow or agree to.

I feel this applies to everyone, not just to the super-busy holiday-goers. It's just plain disrespectful to ask to bring back a souvenir, unless the relationship is very close (e.g. a long-term friendship, a wife, etc.).

Yes, that's exactly my point. Glad you tied it all together :).

Still, I'd hold off on drawing any final conclusions yet. I'm still a learner and some more feedback from other forum members might shine some more light.

P.S.:

I believe in treating people fairly regardless of their status.

Sometimes I'll use the example of a busy, high-value individual to underline when certain behavior is appropriate or inappropriate. It all circles back to the belief that, "If you wouldn't do it to someone who's high-status, don't do it to anyone. (Treat people well regardless of their current station in life.)"

Quote from John Freeman on February 17, 2022, 6:55 pm

I think it depends on the relationship. That is, how appropriate is the request regarding to how close you are?

If it's a colleague who's not like a friend or an acquaintance, it is inappropriate. That is the certainty from which you can draw boundaries. Or you can be the type of person who brings back souvenirs for everyone who ask them. It depends on you. But in this case it seems that you boundaries were cross and you were not willing or unable to defend them.

So starting from this frame of inappropriateness based on the closeness of the relationship, you could:

Not take it seriously: "Hahaha, I wish I could bring back souvenirs for everyone" and move on: "What about you? Are you going on holiday anytime soon". And if the person pushes further, you could answer: "I'm sorry but I bring back souvenir only for family or close friends (optional: otherwise I come back with too much stuff)" with sad tone/face and move on: "What about this project you're working on?".

Not take it at face value: "I'll see what I can do" (smile) and don't act on it. A lot of social games are based on "pretending" especially between people who are not close. You pretend to like someone you don't like at work, etc. It does not make you dishonest. It makes you someone who's able to navigate with shrewd social landscape. Remember, you don't owe this person anything based on your writing. If the person asks later if you brought back something you can say: "Yeah, sorry finally I did not bring anything back (implied: for you)" with sad tone (you take the blame to be able to move on) and move on: "What about you? How have you been?"

This also shows that with this person I would take some distance: be friendly and warm but not talk about personal topics. This person seems too intrusive based on your relationship.

If you don't feel comfortable doing something for someone you are not close enough, you don't have to do it. The shame/guilt often comes from a belief that we have to say "yes". See the beliefs of assertiveness from PU (not copy-pasting this for respect for the fact it's a paid product).

Quote from B on February 17, 2022, 7:13 pm

Quote from John Freeman on February 17, 2022, 6:55 pm

Not take it seriously: "Hahaha, I wish I could bring back souvenirs for everyone" and move on: "What about you? Are you going on holiday anytime soon". And if the person pushes further, you could answer: "I'm sorry but I bring back souvenir only for family or close friends (optional: otherwise I come back with too much stuff)" with sad tone/face and move on: "What about this project you're working on?".

Not take it at face value: "I'll see what I can do" (smile) and don't act on it. A lot of social games are based on "pretending" especially between people who are not close. You pretend to like someone you don't like at work, etc. It does not make you dishonest. It makes you someone who's able to navigate with shrewd social landscape. Remember, you don't owe this person anything based on your writing. If the person asks later if you brought back something you can say: "Yeah, sorry finally I did not bring anything back (implied: for you)" with sad tone (you take the blame to be able to move on) and move on: "What about you? How have you been?"

This also shows that with this person I would take some distance: be friendly and warm but not talk about personal topics. This person seems too intrusive based on your relationship.

Thank you John!

What you write is golden, the first option is so definitely usable, and the second is something like what I did with the two persons after the truck episode (but my mistake was in saying "I'll bring it to you" instead of "I'll see what I can do", which is 100 times better as you say).

OFF TOPIC

See the beliefs of assertiveness from PU (not copy-pasting this for respect for the fact it's a paid product).

This is something I wanted to say to Lucio: feel free to delete my posts in the "typos megathread", as they incorporate content from PU and I have no investment in keeping them there.