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"Bring me a souvenir" power move

#11 · February 18, 2022, 2:32 am

This could depend a lot on personalities and your relationship with them.

I can't remember having ever encountered it from adults, so I'd definitely like to hear in which situation it happened and how it was said.

So without context, I agree with Ali that this is bad social etiquette and a sign of poor social intelligence.

BUT if you say they've been manipulative before, then it's more likely instead a sign of a Machiavellian / manipulative personality trying to gain power over you.

In either case, it's most certainly a power move in the sense that no matter the intention, it has strong effects on the power dynamics.
This is nothing but a form of tasking, and a strong one.
Very much "jump through my hoops backward".

So whatever you choose, unless you're close and wanted to bring something, the final action should always be "bring back nothing".
How you verbalize that depends on the situation and relationship, but I'd prefer here more direct approaches because this is an orange / borderline red power move, and you generally want to be direct with those.
If you don't, the simple fact someone thought they could task you -and tried to- on your holidays disempower you -even if you don't follow up on it-.

As for actual answers, many techniques here can apply.
Just to go for the latest one:

You: that's a weird thing to ask someone

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#12 · February 18, 2022, 3:00 am

Quote from B on February 18, 2022, 3:00 am
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 18, 2022, 2:32 am
I can't remember having ever encountered it from adults, so I'd definitely like to hear in which situation it happened and how it was said.
First case: my palace's concierge. I was going out, and at the time I used to stop for 5 minutes to chitchat.
Him: Where are you going on holiday?
Me: I'm going to ...
Him: You know, I really like big trucks from [that country]. Of course you don't have to bring back a big one, but if you could bring back to me a little model, that would be great.
In writing this, I now understand one of the reasons I fell for it (among others) was that he used the "contrast-reciprocity" principle that Cialdini describes in his book "Influence". His move was really good (or rather really bad and manipulative!, but effective).
Second case: a not-so-distant female relative.
Her: Where are you going?
Me: I'm going to ...
Her: Can you bring back a small ceramic tile to me? I really like them.
Third case: a manipulative "friend".
Me: I'm going to...
Him: You know, I really like artistic Christmas balls from that place. Could you bring me one?
So these other two were more direct. I think the reason I did not comply in the end in these two cases were: that they were too abrupt and direct, and that I had already fallen for the concierge's move. But I still made the mistake of saying "yes" to all three.
I was so surrounded by manipulators that it is really impossible to believe it.
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 18, 2022, 2:32 am
BUT if you say they've been manipulative before, then it's more likely instead a sign of a Machiavellian / manipulative personality trying to gain power over you.
How you verbalize that depends on the situation and relationship, but I'd prefer here more direct approaches because this is an orange / borderline red power move, and you generally want to be direct with those.
If you don't, the simple fact someone thought they could task you -and tried to- on your holidays disempower you -even if you don't follow up on it-.
As for actual answers, many techniques here can apply.
Just to go for the latest one:
You: that's a weird thing to ask someone
Thank you. I totally agree: I unconsciusly realized, after the first time, that it was really bad for me to comply in terms of relative power to the asking person: the concierge became nastier and nastier, so much that even I (who at the time was oblivious of power dynamics) was able to understand I had done something wrong.
Another thing that made me realize I was making mistakes here: I started to understand that these people were not really interested in what they were asking me. They seemed more interested in gauging my response. In fact, if you think of it, what sense does it make to ask for a generic "small ceramic tile" from a certain country? Or even for a "small truck model" that you can find everywhere? No sense.
The same person that asked me for the tile afterwards (I was starting to pick up that something was off) complained to me that I took five days to answer one of her emails, while in the past I used to answer her immediately. When she said this, it became clear to me she was monitoring my "compliance level", so to speak.
And the "stock meta-comment technique" here works really well.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 18, 2022, 2:32 am
I can't remember having ever encountered it from adults, so I'd definitely like to hear in which situation it happened and how it was said.

First case: my palace's concierge. I was going out, and at the time I used to stop for 5 minutes to chitchat.

Him: Where are you going on holiday?
Me: I'm going to ...
Him: You know, I really like big trucks from [that country]. Of course you don't have to bring back a big one, but if you could bring back to me a little model, that would be great.

In writing this, I now understand one of the reasons I fell for it (among others) was that he used the "contrast-reciprocity" principle that Cialdini describes in his book "Influence". His move was really good (or rather really bad and manipulative!, but effective).

Second case: a not-so-distant female relative.

Her: Where are you going?
Me: I'm going to ...
Her: Can you bring back a small ceramic tile to me? I really like them.

Third case: a manipulative "friend".

Me: I'm going to...
Him: You know, I really like artistic Christmas balls from that place. Could you bring me one?

So these other two were more direct. I think the reason I did not comply in the end in these two cases were: that they were too abrupt and direct, and that I had already fallen for the concierge's move. But I still made the mistake of saying "yes" to all three.

I was so surrounded by manipulators that it is really impossible to believe it.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 18, 2022, 2:32 am
BUT if you say they've been manipulative before, then it's more likely instead a sign of a Machiavellian / manipulative personality trying to gain power over you.
How you verbalize that depends on the situation and relationship, but I'd prefer here more direct approaches because this is an orange / borderline red power move, and you generally want to be direct with those.
If you don't, the simple fact someone thought they could task you -and tried to- on your holidays disempower you -even if you don't follow up on it-.
As for actual answers, many techniques here can apply.
Just to go for the latest one:
You: that's a weird thing to ask someone

Thank you. I totally agree: I unconsciusly realized, after the first time, that it was really bad for me to comply in terms of relative power to the asking person: the concierge became nastier and nastier, so much that even I (who at the time was oblivious of power dynamics) was able to understand I had done something wrong.

Another thing that made me realize I was making mistakes here: I started to understand that these people were not really interested in what they were asking me. They seemed more interested in gauging my response. In fact, if you think of it, what sense does it make to ask for a generic "small ceramic tile" from a certain country? Or even for a "small truck model" that you can find everywhere? No sense.

The same person that asked me for the tile afterwards (I was starting to pick up that something was off) complained to me that I took five days to answer one of her emails, while in the past I used to answer her immediately. When she said this, it became clear to me she was monitoring my "compliance level", so to speak.

And the "stock meta-comment technique" here works really well.

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#13 · February 18, 2022, 11:31 am

Thank you for sharing, Bel.

It's very instructive.

Going through the dynamics here very quickly:

Power Shit Tests

It sounds like they were all "power shit tests", to borrow the expression from pick-up literature (I'm thinking whether we can keep that definition, or if we should come up with a new one to extend to all socialization / power dynamics).

The negative effects of compliance

Technically, in this case, this would be "failing the power test".

Once they saw they could control you, they went "power up", thought they could get and pretend more, or even simply that they could disrespect you, and their nastier, more aggressive, and controlling side showed (as PU says: often, you only truly judge characters when they are -or feel- power up).

Complying as a more advanced testing-back

This is also in PU as a strategy.

One could sometimes comply on purpose to test characters.

But, in these cases, generally speaking, the simple fact they're trying to disempower you, already provides you enough information about them that you don't necessarily need to dig deeper.

You feeling off = the "feel" was there

The fact you felt something was off already suggests you had the "feel" already.

Both for socialization and for power dynamics.

And that's probably why when you encountered TPM's type of information you both realized how helpful it could be, and you started catching up and leveling up very quickly: you had the "dots" in your mind and it was a lot about connecting them and starting to build a foundation and system with them.

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#14 · September 8, 2023, 8:43 am

A similar thing happened to me and the intentions were obvious. My gf’s guy friend tries to one up me and comments “bring back cool rocks” on my insta post when I went to Spain. It felt like a power move. I responded with “got you some exotics” like the agree but improve method of handling tasks (idk if that was the best response tbh). Looking back I wish I’d responded with “you don’t need more rocks.” A good ole one upper.

#15 · September 8, 2023, 9:09 am

The envious "friend" eyeing his friend's girlfriend and competing for the scraps of her attention, talking about one of the saddest roles in life :).

Quote from Carlosortega on September 8, 2023, 8:43 am
I responded with “got you some exotics” like the agree but improve method of handling tasks (idk if that was the best response tbh). Looking back I wish I’d responded with “you don’t need more rocks.” A good ole one upper.

Not too bad, and a lot better than saying "yes" or "for sure".

Or to thread-expand on his topic and follow his lead.

The only thing is that you rewarded him with something even better than what he asked.

So a similar but more neutral answer:

Him: bring back cool rocks
You: I'll bring you back a fighting bull

A simple one-cross.
He asks X, you say Y, just to avoid following his lead or rewarding him.

Another more one-uppy, more advanced option:

Him: bring back cool rocks
You: I'll bring you a nice spanish chica

Sub-communication being: what you really need is a girl (and self-frame you as a high-power man who can find one easily, contrary to him).

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#16 · September 9, 2023, 12:57 am

That's golden. Well you live and you learn.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on September 8, 2023, 9:09 am
The envious "friend" eyeing his friend's girlfriend and competing for the scraps of her attention, talking about one of the saddest roles in life :).

I should've thought about it like that sooner. Let it get under my skin for way too long.

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