Quote from Carlosortega on October 13, 2023, 2:21 am

There are some ways to counter this.

A bold one would be to remove his hand physically - countering his move with physical dominance of your own. Similar to what Castro did to Obama but less preemptive.

Maybe even add:

”stop touching me” which I’ve seen people do.

Had a friend who was trying to physically one-up his friend in front of girls by putting his arm around him and he said:

”yo you keep trying to big bro me in front of these girls and I’ve told you I don’t like you touching me like that” and removed his arm from around him (with a hint of aggression) and it worked (or it seemed like it to me).

Another option I would use depending on the context would be to simply return the touch.

Quote from Kavalier on October 13, 2023, 5:28 am

Hello, John, Carlos, everyone

I think your proposed answers and Carlos' might be effective. But in this case, I'd suggest something based on an advice Lucio recently gave me in another thread:

Male nurse: Hey Mr. chief-of-pic-nic in pediatrics, could you guys take care of this 17 y.o.?

Me: Hey Mr. Male nurse (I think it's a good comeback. Optionally, you could also just use his actual name, which shows you're above his games) you'll have to check directly with the resident. I'm leaving now (going to take a train).

Just one thing, when you call me a "chief of pic nic" or put your hand on my shoulder like you are doing, you are not being professional. That's not very cool to be honest.

If you have the power, you can also add: that said, during my shift, you guys can count on us to cooperate.

I think it works because it refuses to play the game he's setting and highlights that you prioritize getting things done.

If the conversation goes on, you can also add the

Yeah, yeah, the only reason I'm saying it is because you seem a cool guy man

That Lucio advised me, which brings more warmth to the interaction.

Quote from Gguwad on October 13, 2023, 7:56 am

In this situation, what we want to achieve? I assume it's respect and not giving free favours.

Free favour is to deal with the 17 year old and the disrespect is to put a hand on your arm, as it's not something you would do to your boss or a person you have respect for, if you deal with arm then you will command enough respect for joke to not matter.

Because arm is the most sticking out in this situation I would propose dealing with it first, no warmth and conviction, and when they stop, you once again become warmer so you don't seem confrontational, you more power protect but still say that you can't do it and that they need to consult with resident.

In this way you come off as a person who has to respected but still cooperative.

How it would play out:

Male nurse: ( puts a hand on your arm ) Hey Mr. chief-of-pic-nic in pediatrics, could you guys take care of this 17 y.o.?

Me: ( No warmth, looking at the arm and at nurse )

Me: ( If the nurse doesn't stop ) Could take this hand off?

Male nurse: Oh, yeah, sorry ( no way they can refuse )

Me: (more warmth now) About the 17 y.o, sorry, I am leaving now, you should check it with the resident if there's no problem.

Male nurse: yeah sure I'll ask her

The rest is not important as you are power up from this conversation, and for small jokes, I would not care about them unless it happens regularly and annoys you, it's death by a thousand cuts after all, one or two cuts will not hurt you and neither it's possible to detect and deal with them always on moment's notice.

Just like you can't detect a mosquito biting you, still doesn't stop you from squashing it the next moment.

Quote from John Freeman on October 13, 2023, 9:46 am

Hello Carlos, Kavalier, DGX37,

Thank you for your answers.

One more detail I was sitting and he was standing up. I'm 5'7ft (1.7m) and he's more 6'5ft (1.95m) and he's about 60 pounds (30kg). So he was towering above me when he put his hand on my shoulder.

I think looking at the hand until he removes it is a great idea. It's non-verbal so it's low investment so high power.

Asking to remove the hand if he does not comply is more appropriate here than moving away as it is lower power to move away. I would be the one making the effort whereas he's the one in the "wrong". Moving away is a bit defensive and like escaping. Asking to remove the hand is more assertive and higher power. I would only slightly tweak it to Switzerland's polite and consensual culture:

Me: ( If the nurse doesn't stop ) Could take this hand off please?

However knowing these guys he would use the cover of friendliness/joke: "hey don't get so offended" and it could escalate to a power showdown. My answer to an escalation could be:

Me: I prefer if you remove your hand, that's all. Thanks.

I also agree about the small joke to ignore if it's a once or twice occurence. Otherwise if I address the hand and the joke it's too confrontational.

Also the challenge is that I will interact with him again as a colleague. He also has the power to destroy my reputation among the nurses even if not fair. Some of them are looking for any opportunity to do that. So I must keep rapport here or rebuild it as Kavalier suggested below:

Yeah, yeah, the only reason I'm saying it is because you seem a cool guy man

So I agree with all of you it's about:

1. Setting strong boundaries in a polite but firm way (as Lucio says address the tone first then the content)
2. Rebuilding rapport
3. Answering the professional factual request

When he addressed for the request I gave the power to the resident. I could have stayed in power with this:

Me: for me it's ok the table (emergency summary of all patient on the computer) seems fine (not too busy for pediatrics). You still have to check with the resident if her workload allows to do so as I'm leaving now.

Thanks a lot!

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 13, 2023, 3:41 pm

Good job and attitude towards this John, I think overall you did well.

I'm personally not sure whether the hand or the nickname was more disempowering.

But if in doubt, addressing one like DGX37 suggests is more than enough if you do it well.
Checking one sends the clear message that no disrespect is cool (and hence also the other power move).

I also think that your proposed solutions are solid, and I'd personally go for "chief of what?".

Also, what you say about some nurses being potentially frustrated for the nature of their position and little chances of advancement is totally fair.
And it's good to think about it to understand the overall dynamics.
On the other hand, that doesn't give them the right to disempower you (as I'm pretty sure you'd also agree with)

Quote from John Freeman on October 13, 2023, 6:09 pm

Thank you so much for your encouraging message Lucio!

It’s heartwarming for me. :)

Yeah I do agree.

Got it regarding chief of what?