Former Community – We Moved

🆕 Coached community here, for posts & feedback public community here.

ForumPublic Forum: Power DynamicsCompliment Power Moves: Complimen …

Please or Register to create posts and topics.

Compliment Power Moves: Compliment Them for Fitting Your Frame Or Framing a Remark as a Compliment

#1 · January 17, 2021, 1:39 pm

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 17, 2021, 1:16 pm from Lucio's Journal
Frame / label someone a certain way, and then compliment them for fitting your frame: the compliment can serve to put a "seal", a stamp of approval on the frame / label and strengthen it
Framing a remark as a compliment: it seems more "real", like it's a fact, and it deserves a compliment for it. Most importantly, rebuffing it is harder because you'd have to undo the compliment, which would break rapport and make you seem "ungrateful" or "angry without a reason". A type of covert power move. Yeah, I think it deserves its own name

Very interesting power moves.
Can't think of a good name on the spot.

At the same time, I'm thinking about how to rebut this kind of compliment power moves.
Some examples carrying forward from the other thread:

Person A: I recently finished this project.
Person B:
(A) I really like this guy. He goes the extra mile.
(B) Great job! Let me know if you need any help
(C) Bravo! Looks like you are the type of person I can count on to finish a project.

Going Partially Meta

Person A: I recently finished this project.
Person B: I really like this guy. He goes the extra mile.
Person A: Genius! You're giving a compliment to frame yourself as the authority. (Could be politically risky and a bit rapport breaking)

Play the Patronising "Kind" & "Warm" Frame Back

Person A: I recently finished this project.
Person B: I really like this guy. He goes the extra mile.
Person A: Hit me up if you need my help. You have my contact.

Spin a Collaborative Frame

Person A: I recently finished this project.
Person B: I really like this guy. He goes the extra mile.
Person A: If you have an idea in this domain, let's talk.

Re-framing Yourself As The More Powerful Person

Person A: I recently finished this project.
Person B: I really like this guy. He goes the extra mile.
Person A: I'm glad you have been actively following my work.

Lucio Buffalmano and Ali Scarlett have reacted to this post.

#2 · January 17, 2021, 2:38 pm

Thanks for starting this thread, Matthew. I needed it and I was about to start it myself and name it "How to know when compliments are coming from a judge role". But, this thread can achieve the same result while covering more ground.

A quick note on your example, that looks like a specific covert power move in PU. So, maybe a better move would to play the same move back:

Mirroring Their Game

Person A: I recently finished this project.
Person B: I really like this guy. He goes the extra mile.
Person A: Ehehe, you always know how to build people up (covertly calls out their game). That's what I like about you (rebalances the power dynamics).

How to Know When Compliments Are Coming From A Judge

If they move to deliver their compliment down on you from a high-power standpoint
In other words, they say something before giving the compliment to let you know that this compliment is coming from looking down on you. A better, less rapport-breaking way to give compliments is from a position of looking up to the person you're complimenting.
If they compliment you instead of the value you brought to the table
I think that saying "That's what I like about this tip..." is a compliment on the tip itself. But, the moment you hear, "That's what I like about this guy...", that person is beginning to judge you and not what you did for the team or the value you brought to the table.

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.

#3 · January 19, 2021, 1:11 pm

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 19, 2021, 1:11 pm
OK, analyzed this one.
In that specific example what initially stumped me was that it was two covert power moves in one sentence, and one element was a new example of covert power move which Matthew first spotted:
Framing compliment (covert power move): a compliment that sets a specific frame and, when the frame is seemingly positive but actually negative, it's an example of a covert power move
"(you're) always so positive"
Matthew originally described it as "frame it a remark as a compliment", which is true.
That remark also sets a frame for you, so I called it "framing compliment", for now.
Usually, adjectives and (seemingly) positive descriptions are framing compliments.
99% of compliments are good, and you don't need to worry about them they're value-giving.
The 1% can turn value-taking when you don't want to be associated with that frame/adjective/positive trait, or when that positive trait is only seemingly positive, but actually value-taking for whatever reasons (there could be previous precedents between you two, you can be in a specific environment with different values systems than the general population, etc.)
Appreciation (cementing): confirming the frame with a compliment, praise, appreciation, or (positive) evaluation
Bravo!
"Bravo" is an element of the already described "frame cementing".
Frame cementing expands and reinforces the initial frame.
Frame cementing with a final appreciation puts a "seal of approval" from a judge position, and makes it harder to fight the initial frame because:
The frame is stronger with the final appreciation
The final compliment is seemingly value-taking and kind, so if you fight it, it seems like you're being ungrateful
I know added this as "cementing appreciation" to the previously existing "cementing".
COVERT POWER MOVE
When one of these two -or both- are used for value-taking purposes, rather than their usual value-giving purposes, then both of them are examples of the larger category of covert power move.
It's covert because it presents itself in the guise of a compliment, but it's a power move because they set (framing compliment) and reinforce (cementing appreciation) a frame that, for whatever reason, you deem to be value-taking (in the original example, I don't want to be framed as "positive", and don't want to be judged by her).
HOW TO HANDLE THEM
Going to better read Matthew and Ali's replies now :)

OK, analyzed this one.

In that specific example what initially stumped me was that it was two covert power moves in one sentence, and one element was a new example of covert power move which Matthew first spotted:

Framing compliment (covert power move): a compliment that sets a specific frame and, when the frame is seemingly positive but actually negative, it's an example of a covert power move

"(you're) always so positive"

Matthew originally described it as "frame it a remark as a compliment", which is true.
That remark also sets a frame for you, so I called it "framing compliment", for now.

Usually, adjectives and (seemingly) positive descriptions are framing compliments.

99% of compliments are good, and you don't need to worry about them they're value-giving.

The 1% can turn value-taking when you don't want to be associated with that frame/adjective/positive trait, or when that positive trait is only seemingly positive, but actually value-taking for whatever reasons (there could be previous precedents between you two, you can be in a specific environment with different values systems than the general population, etc.)

Appreciation (cementing): confirming the frame with a compliment, praise, appreciation, or (positive) evaluation

Bravo!

"Bravo" is an element of the already described "frame cementing".

Frame cementing expands and reinforces the initial frame.
Frame cementing with a final appreciation puts a "seal of approval" from a judge position, and makes it harder to fight the initial frame because:

The frame is stronger with the final appreciation
The final compliment is seemingly value-taking and kind, so if you fight it, it seems like you're being ungrateful

I know added this as "cementing appreciation" to the previously existing "cementing".

COVERT POWER MOVE

When one of these two -or both- are used for value-taking purposes, rather than their usual value-giving purposes, then both of them are examples of the larger category of covert power move.

It's covert because it presents itself in the guise of a compliment, but it's a power move because they set (framing compliment) and reinforce (cementing appreciation) a frame that, for whatever reason, you deem to be value-taking (in the original example, I don't want to be framed as "positive", and don't want to be judged by her).

HOW TO HANDLE THEM

Going to better read Matthew and Ali's replies now :)

selffriend and Power Duck have reacted to this post.

Community, new content and Confidence University now available here.

#4 · January 19, 2021, 1:59 pm

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 19, 2021, 1:59 pm
Alright, there is a lot of good stuff here already.
I like a lot Matthew's "I'm glad you have been actively following my work" to change reframe him as "judge" to "follower" and I also like a lot Ali's mirroring.
The pacing in Ali's reply "eheh you really know how to build people up" is very smooth. It builds on the original power moves, preserves rapport AND takes a judge role back without ever coming across as confrontation, very good.
And "that's what I like about you" plays the same game back on them. Since the first part was already good, one could also omit this second part it if was a boss or someone with authority over you.
Otherwise, it's great for someone with the same (or lower) status.
UNCOVERING THE COVERT POWER MOVE
The power of a covert framing compliment is that it comes in a guise of kindness (just like covert aggression).
So if you fight it head-on, it seems like you’re being overly aggressive towards someone who was being kind.
Imagine:
Her: You're always so positive, bravo!
You: I'm not positive, don't call me positive, I'm a realist!
That reply is better than accepting the frame in the first place, but there are some drawbacks that don't make it ideal for all situations, including:
It breaks rapport: so if the person was being honest, you are pushing back too hard on a person that actually just wanted to say something nice
It's child-like rebellious: when you rebel to the judge frame, you're acting as the rebellious child. And the angrier and the harder you push back, the more you confirm the judge's power over you (I know it can be challenging, judge power moves annoy me a lot)
So a good way to react to this is to also address the initial (fake) guise of kindness.
A bit like Ali did in his example.
In this case:
Her: You're always so positive, bravo!
You: Thanks, positive is OK (acknowledges the guise of kindness), but I don't see it as positive (refutes the frame). I don't like positive, to be honest (assertive sharing of feelings). It’s about a stoic attitude towards life (reframes to your liking).
It matters to me, so I had to specify that :) (vulnerable assertiveness: shows it's important to you) Anyway, we'll do a coffee when we're in the same place. Cheers! (ends with collaboration)
Or:
Her: You're always so positive, bravo!
You: Thanks for the appreciation (acknowledges the guise of kindness), but labels are important, and it's not about positivity, it's about stoicism (reframes to your liking).
It matters to me, so I have to specify that :) (vulnerable assertiveness: shows it's important to you) Anyway, we'll do a coffee when we're in the same place. Cheers! (ends with collaboration)
It takes a bit longer to type, but it avoids the escalation -on your part, at least-, keeps rapport, states your position clearly, and it's also higher power.
The good thing is that it does two important things:
It assertively states your wants: you don't want to be framed as positive
it sets the precedent: the precedent of clearly stating you don't want their framing compliment power move
Both are very important to keep positive relationship.
Once your needs are clear you can assess characters far better: people who respect them are good people. People who keep pulling judge power moves need to get out of your life.
With that precedent, if they do the same in the future, you have the right -and the reference point-, to get more and more assertive in your pushbacks, for example:
You: Well, like I told you the last time, maybe you don't remember, but I don't like this "positive frame". Why are you saying it again
Now let them defend and explain, not you.
This is good power dynamics.
Thoughts or ideas on this?

Alright, there is a lot of good stuff here already.

I like a lot Matthew's "I'm glad you have been actively following my work" to change reframe him as "judge" to "follower" and I also like a lot Ali's mirroring.

The pacing in Ali's reply "eheh you really know how to build people up" is very smooth. It builds on the original power moves, preserves rapport AND takes a judge role back without ever coming across as confrontation, very good.
And "that's what I like about you" plays the same game back on them. Since the first part was already good, one could also omit this second part it if was a boss or someone with authority over you.
Otherwise, it's great for someone with the same (or lower) status.

UNCOVERING THE COVERT POWER MOVE

The power of a covert framing compliment is that it comes in a guise of kindness (just like covert aggression).

So if you fight it head-on, it seems like you’re being overly aggressive towards someone who was being kind.

Imagine:

Her: You're always so positive, bravo!
You: I'm not positive, don't call me positive, I'm a realist!

That reply is better than accepting the frame in the first place, but there are some drawbacks that don't make it ideal for all situations, including:

It breaks rapport: so if the person was being honest, you are pushing back too hard on a person that actually just wanted to say something nice
It's child-like rebellious: when you rebel to the judge frame, you're acting as the rebellious child. And the angrier and the harder you push back, the more you confirm the judge's power over you (I know it can be challenging, judge power moves annoy me a lot)

So a good way to react to this is to also address the initial (fake) guise of kindness.
A bit like Ali did in his example.
In this case:

Her: You're always so positive, bravo!
You: Thanks, positive is OK (acknowledges the guise of kindness), but I don't see it as positive (refutes the frame). I don't like positive, to be honest (assertive sharing of feelings). It’s about a stoic attitude towards life (reframes to your liking).
It matters to me, so I had to specify that :) (vulnerable assertiveness: shows it's important to you) Anyway, we'll do a coffee when we're in the same place. Cheers! (ends with collaboration)

Or:

Her: You're always so positive, bravo!
You: Thanks for the appreciation (acknowledges the guise of kindness), but labels are important, and it's not about positivity, it's about stoicism (reframes to your liking).
It matters to me, so I have to specify that :) (vulnerable assertiveness: shows it's important to you) Anyway, we'll do a coffee when we're in the same place. Cheers! (ends with collaboration)

It takes a bit longer to type, but it avoids the escalation -on your part, at least-, keeps rapport, states your position clearly, and it's also higher power.

The good thing is that it does two important things:

It assertively states your wants: you don't want to be framed as positive
it sets the precedent: the precedent of clearly stating you don't want their framing compliment power move

Both are very important to keep positive relationship.
Once your needs are clear you can assess characters far better: people who respect them are good people. People who keep pulling judge power moves need to get out of your life.

With that precedent, if they do the same in the future, you have the right -and the reference point-, to get more and more assertive in your pushbacks, for example:

You: Well, like I told you the last time, maybe you don't remember, but I don't like this "positive frame". Why are you saying it again

Now let them defend and explain, not you.

This is good power dynamics.

Thoughts or ideas on this?

Matthew Whitewood and selffriend have reacted to this post.

Community, new content and Confidence University now available here.

#5 · January 20, 2021, 3:02 pm

Quote from Ali Scarlett on January 20, 2021, 3:02 pm
Yeah, I agree with your thoughts there Lucio.
I also want to note that this framing compliment is a covert power move that can likely be handled the same as when jokes are used as covert power moves: by surfacing.
Her: "(You're) always positive, bravo!"
You: "What do you mean by positive (surfaces the part of her frame you disagree with)?"
Her: "Well...(responds with her frame on positivity)"
You: (reframes her definition of "positive" while maintiaing rapport)
And, I think I noticed a similar situation in a TV show I was watching today.
A boy had become friends with a girl named Hina. Hina's backstory and family were a complete mystery, so, in an effort to learn more about her, the boy worked with Hina to track down her missing father believing it would bring everyone closer.
Come to find out, her father had started a new family. It turns out that Hina previously had logos syndrome (a condition that deteriorates the body until death) when she was younger, and, as a doctor, the father felt there was nothing he could do to cure her. The mother blamed herself for her daughter's condition and took her own life. The father left his daughter to pass away, remarried, and started a new family.
And so, this is what the father says to the boy after he brings Hina, who is now fit, happy, and healthy, right back to his doorstep after years of them being apart:
Father: (out loud but more to himself) "It's strange. Should I rejoice at her recovery, or beat myself up for abandoning her to create a new family."
Father: (chuckles judgmentally)
Father: (now talking to the boy) "I'm sure I should be angry. At you, for bringing her here."
Boy: (confused) "What? Why?"
Father: "You're still a child (positions himself as having more authority). It's natural that you wouldn't understand. Just how cruel it is to show me Hina healthy after all this time. It's probably something only I, as her parent, can understand."
Boy: "Are you saying it's not an option for her to live with you?"
Father: "Haha, (framing compliment) how innocent you are...".
The "how innocent you are" seems to work as a framing compliment. Then, he proceeded to talk about all the reasons why it wouldn't work out to bring Hina back.
And, if he had followed up his "compliment" with something like "I like that about you" (a double covert power move) or "good for you" (similar to the "Bravo" Lucio received) that would have been a way of frame cementing the framing compliment.

Yeah, I agree with your thoughts there Lucio.

I also want to note that this framing compliment is a covert power move that can likely be handled the same as when jokes are used as covert power moves: by surfacing.

Her: "(You're) always positive, bravo!"
You: "What do you mean by positive (surfaces the part of her frame you disagree with)?"
Her: "Well...(responds with her frame on positivity)"
You: (reframes her definition of "positive" while maintiaing rapport)

And, I think I noticed a similar situation in a TV show I was watching today.

A boy had become friends with a girl named Hina. Hina's backstory and family were a complete mystery, so, in an effort to learn more about her, the boy worked with Hina to track down her missing father believing it would bring everyone closer.

Come to find out, her father had started a new family. It turns out that Hina previously had logos syndrome (a condition that deteriorates the body until death) when she was younger, and, as a doctor, the father felt there was nothing he could do to cure her. The mother blamed herself for her daughter's condition and took her own life. The father left his daughter to pass away, remarried, and started a new family.

And so, this is what the father says to the boy after he brings Hina, who is now fit, happy, and healthy, right back to his doorstep after years of them being apart:

Father: (out loud but more to himself) "It's strange. Should I rejoice at her recovery, or beat myself up for abandoning her to create a new family."
Father: (chuckles judgmentally)
Father: (now talking to the boy) "I'm sure I should be angry. At you, for bringing her here."
Boy: (confused) "What? Why?"
Father: "You're still a child (positions himself as having more authority). It's natural that you wouldn't understand. Just how cruel it is to show me Hina healthy after all this time. It's probably something only I, as her parent, can understand."
Boy: "Are you saying it's not an option for her to live with you?"
Father: "Haha, (framing compliment) how innocent you are...".

The "how innocent you are" seems to work as a framing compliment. Then, he proceeded to talk about all the reasons why it wouldn't work out to bring Hina back.

And, if he had followed up his "compliment" with something like "I like that about you" (a double covert power move) or "good for you" (similar to the "Bravo" Lucio received) that would have been a way of frame cementing the framing compliment.

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.