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"Consent!" power move
Hello TPM community,
in this birthday evening (at my friend's housesharing) rich in power moves, here is what happened:
A little context: I'm an animal person. I love them they love me. The cat (which I love) was passing by, obviously not wanting to be bothered. I swooped him in my arms (I usually don't do that, I take them gently or not).
For more background: There's a woman manipulator who infiltrated their house sharing (I know she's a manipulator, won't expand on it here. They don't.). Last time I exposed her in a 1-on-1 conversation as she was making excuses for being a waitress in a swimming pool in Switzerland (no shame about it but she trained as an environmental advisor on green energy). But she became a waitress not be because she could not get a job in France. It's because people did not want to hire her in France (67 million people) because she was a woman (!!). Â After some time she revealed that it was because they hired (surprise surprise) someone who was more experience than her. So an "excuse queen" (as I call them): already red flag.
Anyway, at the birthday she shouted:
Her: CONSENT!!!
Her: Put the cat down.
I could feel she brought the crowd against me. I could feel the eyes and the anger towards me. So I put the cat down.
So she framed me not only as an abuser but as a rapist (and as an out-group as well out of the group's norms). At that moment I was not ready so I did not say anything.
My solution
Her: CONSENT!!!
Me: Hey don't shout at me. What are you talking about?
This one I'm not so sure how to defend against. I think the goal is to stop her into her track. It's a shame attack. So it's about stopping the momentum. I see again I need to improve defending against shame attacks. It's a powerful weapon ("against the uninitiated, but we are initiated aren't we Bruce?" :D)
Fast forward.
She attacks me again out of nowhere later in the evening. I don't remember our first exchange but the next part was:
Her: the way you took the cat! You have to ask consent! (re-uses it since it worked the first time)
Me: you're comparing women to cats. That's not very nice.
Her (thinking for a second): It was a joke (smiles).
Me: Well, you should make a "story" out of it (referring to IG).
I was happy I could point to the flaw of her frame (saying that cats require consent like women do). But still I was within her frame (I did not ask the cat's consent and its bad -> shame attack).
Then she thinks for a second and finds her default defence that we know only too well here: it's a joke. Of course it's a joke! How silly of me to have thought it was mean (irony).
Then I think my comeback is not too bad to say to her that it's not funny. So I still come out on top but marginally. And yes I think this woman is a witch. And yes you can guess she's a feminist of course.
My solution
Surfacing
Her: the way you took the cat! You have to ask consent! (re-uses it since it worked the first time)
Me: what are you talking about? (make her invest as well)
Her: blablabla (I'm already in a better position as she's on the defensive now)
Frame rejection + reframe
Her: the way you took the cat! You have to ask consent! (re-uses it since it worked the first time)
Me: it's not about consent. It's about taking a cat in my arms
Her: she did not want to be taken in your arms.
Me: yeah it's true (and not you're right: would empower her). I don't think it deserves shouting "CONSENT!" though. (It's rude.)Anyway (bridges)
I don't think here frame buffet, philosopher's frame, win-win frames/reframes or high dominance frames would work.
When I crossed her path later in the night I smiled to her she did not. So that's a sign she's not friendly to me. Of course she did more that night...
Happy to read your thoughts on these interactions.
Hey John,
Agreed, that was calculated statement designed to put you on the spot, I felt your response in the evening was solid, in the morning when attacked you with that statement, one option could have been to treat it humorously
Quote from John Freeman on October 18, 2023, 10:42 pmAnyway, at the birthday she shouted:
Her: CONSENT!!!
Her: Put the cat down.
I could feel she brought the crowd against me. I could feel the eyes and the anger towards me. So I put the cat down.
You:(Bring the cat near your ears), and remark to the cat did you hear that, then turn to the woman and say, wanna know what the cat has to say about you? (At this point doesn't matter what the woman says) the cat wants you to fuck off.
This is one reply at the top of my head
Cheers
Mav
Hello, John, Maverick!
I think you did well with your answers/proposed solutions. Maverick's also a good one depending on your tone of voice (playful might work. It would show that you kept your cool and the strong language had some degree of aggressivess, so as not to appear too nice) and on the cat's personality (there are dangers in taking an unwilling cat so near your face lol) - as long as you know the cat, it usually likes you, and the true owners don't mind you holding it.
If feasible (for example, if the cat was still, not resisting), it would have been higher power not to put him down immediatelly. In this case ignore her, don't acknowledge the others, and address the cat:
You (to the cat): Ok, Felix, you're just so cute, I couldn't resist. You can go, buddy, sorry
Then you release the cat, and after that you confront her the way you proposed, addressing her tone.
Of course, if the cat was resisting, you'd have to put it down as you did anyway. Not the best scenario, since it looks like you complied to her shouting and it makes you look guilty. But there was nothing you could have done in these circumstances.
Also, you might consider escalating. The hint of rape combined with the shout and the order looks too aggressive and deserve an appropriate response. You can shame her and make it clear that consent is something you take very seriously, that it has absolutely nothing to do with the present situation, that it's not something to be "joking" about, and that the mere hint of framing the situation as "abuse" is something you won't tolerate.
Even if you risked ruining the mood of the party, it would have been justified here. Perhaps the angry looks you got from the people around was just an instinctive reaction from their part, because she made it seem like you were mistreating the animal. They didn' have enough time to process the situation, and the showdown, although risky, might have helped them figure out what was really going on.
John, as I was rereading this thread, I see a problem with the feedback I gave above. While her "consent!" was a power move, nobody actually talked about rape or abuse. While the parallels are not that hard to see, it was still jumping to conclusions. Even if it were her intentions it was not enough in the open to address it directly. If we connect dots that nobody else connected, we throw ourselves into an awkward position.
Also, I assumed she were a random woman at the house and had nothing to do with the cat and the owners were normally ok with you petting it. But rereading here I thought that maybe she might have some authority over the cat.
At the same time, although it was nothing that deserves her reaction, if you agree that it was clear that the cat didn't want it, there was a small "blunder" component that must be acknowledged.
As the interaction took place in the presence of an audience, I feel it's important that you check it in front of the same audience.
Proposed solution:
Her: CONSENT!!!
Her: Put the cat down.
You (at first an incredulous face, releasing the cat, perhaps even showing both palms as if to appease her. Careful not to look overly submissive. Then a serious face, perhaps shaking your head disapprovingly as you utter your words, still palms up):
Ok [pause] calm down [pause] I'm sorry if I was clumsy [Pause].
I was just petting the cat. There is no need to shout and be rude like that
Now you deservedly frame her as overreactive, while acknowledging your mistake. By mixing submissive and dominant body language you address both parts of the equation.
Quote from Maverick on October 19, 2023, 12:32 amHey John,
Agreed, that was calculated statement designed to put you on the spot, I felt your response in the evening was solid, in the morning when attacked you with that statement, one option could have been to treat it humorously
Quote from John Freeman on October 18, 2023, 10:42 pmAnyway, at the birthday she shouted:
Her: CONSENT!!!
Her: Put the cat down.
I could feel she brought the crowd against me. I could feel the eyes and the anger towards me. So I put the cat down.
You:(Bring the cat near your ears), and remark to the cat did you hear that, then turn to the woman and say, wanna know what the cat has to say about you? (At this point doesn't matter what the woman says) the cat wants you to fuck off.
This is one reply at the top of my head
Cheers
Mav
Hahaha, I think it's great! I would slightly change it with removing the "the cats wants you to fuck off" as it's a bit too confrontational for my style. I would typically say: "Aha, alright I see. She says she loves me." and take the cat on my side as then there's no victim therefore no offender.
Quote from Kavalier on October 19, 2023, 7:19 amHello, John, Maverick!
I think you did well with your answers/proposed solutions. Maverick's also a good one depending on your tone of voice (playful might work. It would show that you kept your cool and the strong language had some degree of aggressivess, so as not to appear too nice) and on the cat's personality (there are dangers in taking an unwilling cat so near your face lol) - as long as you know the cat, it usually likes you, and the true owners don't mind you holding it.
Thank you. I see your point. Yeah the cat is sweet. 15 min earlier we talked about how the cat had fainted in the stairs and I empathized with them and the cat. I recommended to go see a veterinarian. But yes she has strong influence over them as one of the owner was a bit aggressive towards me later. And she's never been. So yeah this woman knows how to spill her poison.
If feasible (for example, if the cat was still, not resisting), it would have been higher power not to put him down immediatelly. In this case ignore her, don't acknowledge the others, and address the cat:
You (to the cat): Ok, Felix, you're just so cute, I couldn't resist. You can go, buddy, sorry
Then you release the cat, and after that you confront her the way you proposed, addressing her tone.
Yep, I think it's just awesome. Here she was right (and that's why I complied). The cat wanted to be left alone.
Of course, if the cat was resisting, you'd have to put it down as you did anyway. Not the best scenario, since it looks like you complied to her shouting and it makes you look guilty. But there was nothing you could have done in these circumstances.
Right, thanks.
Also, you might consider escalating. The hint of rape combined with the shout and the order looks too aggressive and deserve an appropriate response. You can shame her and make it clear that consent is something you take very seriously, that it has absolutely nothing to do with the present situation, that it's not something to be "joking" about, and that the mere hint of framing the situation as "abuse" is something you won't tolerate.
Yeah, I could have gone the "serious" route.
Even if you risked ruining the mood of the party, it would have been justified here. Perhaps the angry looks you got from the people around was just an instinctive reaction from their part, because she made it seem like you were mistreating the animal. They didn' have enough time to process the situation, and the showdown, although risky, might have helped them figure out what was really going on.
But then it means I'm having a fight at every birthday party I have. Hahaha. I don't know why this is happening each time. My current hypothesis is that it triggers manipulators to attack. They want to be at the top/center of attention. So when they see someone else being in the center they feel like attacking.
Quote from Kavalier on October 19, 2023, 7:03 pmJohn, as I was rereading this thread, I see a problem with the feedback I gave above. While her "consent!" was a power move, nobody actually talked about rape or abuse. While the parallels are not that hard to see, it was still jumping to conclusions. Even if it were her intentions it was not enough in the open to address it directly. If we connect dots that nobody else connected, we throw ourselves into an awkward position.
Yes, I think that's why surfacing would be appropriate her in order to address the real situation and not the one I had in my mind.
Also, I assumed she were a random woman at the house and had nothing to do with the cat and the owners were normally ok with you petting it. But rereading here I thought that maybe she might have some authority over the cat.
Well, she's one of the housemates. So it's her territory. It's not her cat. I don't know how much she loves the cat/takes care of it.
At the same time, although it was nothing that deserves her reaction, if you agree that it was clear that the cat didn't want it, there was a small "blunder" component that must be acknowledged.
Yes I'm going to address it in the following post.
As the interaction took place in the presence of an audience, I feel it's important that you check it in front of the same audience.
Right.
Proposed solution:
Her: CONSENT!!!
Her: Put the cat down.
You (at first an incredulous face, releasing the cat, perhaps even showing both palms as if to appease her. Careful not to look overly submissive. Then a serious face, perhaps shaking your head disapprovingly as you utter your words, still palms up):
Ok [pause] calm down [pause] I'm sorry if I was clumsy [Pause].
I was just petting the cat. There is no need to shout and be rude like that
Boom. As I said in another post: I think it's social finesse! Transitioning from being aggressed to neutral/innocent to counter-attack/assertiveness in 3 seconds.
Now you deservedly frame her as overreactive, while acknowledging your mistake. By mixing submissive and dominant body language you address both parts of the equation.
Boom just boom! I intent to be as good in power/social dynamics in a year or 2 as what you describe.
Using the new framework:
How can I improve myself and/or my behavior to not receive those power moves anymore?Â
Hell. What a challenging question. I think here I lacked social intelligence. I knew I was being too aggressive with the cat. Even if I did not hurt her. I wanted to have fun while disregarding the cat's needs. As I said I usually never do that. I take cats in my arms and I hold them as long as they feel comfortable. If not I put them on the ground. So it all stemmed from that blunder as Kavalier said. And with an audience, it became a social blunder.
So it was about being more respectful of the cat. That's what I could improve.
Was that power move well-called for?
Yes, I think it was called for. It's true that I was being brusque. So her saying that I should let the cat go was true. Of course I don't know what other poison she spilled on me after that.
It's the how that I think was overreactive as Kavalier said. It was a well-placed shame-attack but too strong in its expression from her part.
So yes about the "why", no about the "how".
