Could being disempowered cause feelings of los self-esteem?
So, today I was talking with a college female friend on the way to the cafeteria, (I was the one that was investing the most in the conversation), as we entered in the cafeteria I commented how i found funny something she had just told me (she told me something implying i was crazy; in a joking manner), however she ignored my comment and kept walking without speaking a word.
As soon as we reached the bar I started to feel like an idiot. Two thoughts inmediately came to my mind:
- She is coming across as higher power than me due to her disinterest in the final part of the conversation.
- I get this exact feeling every time i either am disempowered or i come across as low power.
In fact i got another college friend who makes babying power moves to some people(talks to them as if they were dumb among other things) and he backslaps A LOT. Before being power aware i was on the receiving end of some of this moves and i always felt like a complete idiot after interacting with this guy (without knowing why), however as soon as i started to adress his power moves the feeling almost disappeared.
So do you think that being disempowered or acting low power could make you feel bad about yourself?
(By the way this feeling of inadequacy wasnt caused by any thought, It just appeared seemingly out of nowhere. Also i think its important to add that I used to have low self esteem issues)
P.S.
I heard once from Jordan Peterson that your brain does measure your position in the Dominance hierarchy and changes how you feel depending on that.
Yes exactly:
You can read the review for “the status game” on this website.
Also, consider that your set point for negative emotion is highly genetic, Up to 70%.
If you want to read about it, I suggest “DNA, the blueprint” and also chapter 6 in “personality psychology : domains of knowledge about human nature” by David buss
from my personal experience, what helped was practising acceptance, working on your real life skills to become more competent.
I also noticed a big difference after 25 years old that’s the age when your prefrontal cortex finish its development.
Quote from Jack on April 27, 2023, 4:21 pmYes exactly:
You can read the review for “the status game” on this website.
Also, consider that your set point for negative emotion is highly genetic, Up to 70%.
If you want to read about it, I suggest “DNA, the blueprint” and also chapter 6 in “personality psychology : domains of knowledge about human nature” by David buss
from my personal experience, what helped was practising acceptance, working on your real life skills to become more competent.
I also noticed a big difference after 25 years old that’s the age when your prefrontal cortex finish its development.
Thanks. This will be really helpful, didnt knew that about the brains neuroplasticity changing at 25 years old. Seems like i got another reason to change bad habits.
Quote from Power duck on April 27, 2023, 3:31 pmSo do you think that being disempowered or acting low power could make you feel bad about yourself?
For sure yes.
On that same (great) book Jack recommends, you'll see referenced a study that low power / status also increases all causes of mortality and shortens life span (same study referenced in "Power" too, one of the endorsed books here).
And not being aware of it doesn't help -and acually makes it worse-.
Some people in this same forum who were still developing their power awareness and had some major manipulators / power movers in their lives can also tell you that in more extreme cases you don't just feel bad, but can become physically ill.
Like Jack said, age does matter a lot indeed.
Younger folks are a lot more status concerned.
Still it's not like it goes completely away as you mature, but you can do something to "transcend it" -which I believe is the best approach: know how to play the game, but never let the game control you and always be bigger than the game-.
Of course the first help is to react well and not be disempowered :), but since nobody can win all the time, personal growth to not let it affect you too much is also crucial (call "mental empowerment", if you wish).
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Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on April 27, 2023, 5:38 pmQuote from Power duck on April 27, 2023, 3:31 pmSo do you think that being disempowered or acting low power could make you feel bad about yourself?
For sure yes.
On that same (great) book Jack recommends, you'll see referenced a study that low power / status also increases all causes of mortality and shortens life span (same study referenced in "Power" too, one of the endorsed books here).
And not being aware of it doesn't help -and acually makes it worse-.
Some people in this same forum who were still developing their power awareness and had some major manipulators / power movers in their lives can also tell you that in more extreme cases you don't just feel bad, but can become physically ill.
Like Jack said, age does matter a lot indeed.
Younger folks are a lot more status concerned.Still it's not like it goes completely away as you mature, but you can do something to "transcend it" -which I believe is the best approach: know how to play the game, but never let the game control you and always be bigger than the game-.
Of course the first help is to react well and not be disempowered :), but since nobody can win all the time, personal growth to not let it affect you too much is also crucial (call "mental empowerment", if you wish).
Damn I just read a bit of the review and its mindblowing. I knew status does influence lots of things in our daily lives but i didnt knew that much.
About playing the game without letting it affect you: i think that knowing that ones feelings of low self worth could come from a widely unknown brain mechanism, and not from factual proof that youre less than others is really really empowering.
Youre fighting against your nature to thrive and rise to the top. Isnt that cool?
I think victims of abuse/bullying could even use that as fuel to face abusers/power taking folks (As the latter ones would most likely crumble if they were in the same circumstances as the former ones)
Thanks for the reply by the way.
Quote from Power duck on April 27, 2023, 5:56 pmDamn I just read a bit of the review and its mindblowing. I knew status does influence lots of things in our daily lives but i didnt knew that much.
About playing the game without letting it affect you: i think that knowing that ones feelings of low self worth could come from a widely unknown brain mechanism, and not from factual proof that youre less than others is really really empowering.
Youre fighting against your nature to thrive and rise to the top. Isnt that cool?
I think victims of abuse/bullying could even use that as fuel to face abusers/power taking folks (As the latter ones would most likely crumble if they were in the same circumstances as the former ones)
Thanks for the reply by the way.
Agre with everything, just need to add a note to the bold sentence:
yes, up to a certain point.
The loss can, in some people often is, bigger in our minds.
But the social loss can also be very real -or evolution wouldn't have equipped us with that bad feeling in the first place just to spite us-.
To go with your example: when a girl ignores you and it becomes a pattern and you never recover power, the loss in attraction is very real -or the loss of respect if you're already together-.
Still, the bad feeling is still useless -and can also impair your ability to recover effectively-.
So the person who can register the power loss without letting it affect him is both mentally healthier, and more real-life effective -a cold effective operator, one could say-.
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Hello Power Duck,
you already got awesome answers. My perspective on self-esteem in the social context is the following:
Your self-esteem is how much you value yourself. You can take this cue from this inside: "I'm awesome/I'm horrible" or from the outside: "they think I'm awesome/they think I'm horrible".
So if one relies on internal validation ("what I think about myself matters more than what others think about me") to know one's self esteem one will be less or not affected by outside opinion. If one relies on external validation, the opposite occur.
There is a catch 22 here: I'm currently listening on books about self-esteem and working on it. In one of these books the author says that when one has low self-esteem they will tend to rely more on external validation.
I view it this way the thought process goes like this: "I think I'm so bad that other people are more competent than me to evaluate my own worth". So if one has low self-esteem he's going to take more into account potentially negative external opinions than his own opinion in a negative self-reinforcing loop. "The less I trust myself the more I trust others the less I trust myself" and so on.
So I think the starting point is to work on our own self-validation: "I know my worth better than other do. I can still listen to their opinion, but in the final judgment I trust my own judgment more than I do theirs".
Of course, it depends on the situation: at work a senior person is probably better to evaluate your skills (NOT your worth). So we tend to mix the two. Our worth is intact as a person. Our worth to the group (status) varies within groups of course. How much people think we are worth in a given context has nothing to do with our worth as a person.
So we tend to confuse the two. One can be the lowest of the lowest on the totem pole and still feel good about himself: "I'm a taxi cab, but I bring food on the table and my children are happy" or high on the totem pole and feel bad about himself: "I'm the vice-president of the US but I should be president, I'm such a loser".
So to me it comes down to these 4 things:
- Working on internal validation more than external validation
- Dissociate self-worth from status
- Working on self-esteem (positive instead of negative self-talk)
- Being able to take external feed-back without it impacting our sense of self-worth (opinions that can be true or not and helpful or not)
I'm working on it so these are my temporary conclusions. Happy to hear additional or contrary opinions on this.
Very interesting discussion, Guys.
I 100% agree that being constantly disempowered basically amounts to having both one's physical health and one's life destroyed.
Probably 90% of human life is based on social interactions and cues, and being disempowered leads to assuming physical and social traits that subcommunicate low-power (ie scrunched posture, low shoulders, head covering the neck; overthanking or not thanking back people, not recognizing emotional bids, having a mostly blank expression, less emotional variability, stock responses to different and opposite situations).
These traits in turn, IMO, operate as cues for the manipulators and malevolent people out there, by which they unconsciously get the feeling that one can be further disprespected upon first contact.
And manipulators, in my experience, disrespect everyone they can, just to increase their public social status.
In other words, it doesn't matter that they haven't got anything against a person: if that person gives the impression that he or she can be overpowered, some people will try to overpower him or her to gain a higher public status in the sight of all the unrelated third parties present to the interaction.
This basically means that, to get out of past submissiveness, it is imperative to learn, layer-by-layer, to react to dominance attempts by others in such a way to successfully check them and make the manipulators pay socially for their attempt. I say layer-by-layer because, in my personal experience, understanding and seeing some domination attempts will only come after having learned to address other more damaging ones.
The rewards are immense though: feeling better, raising self-esteem, being more socially and sexually attractive, improving relationships - sometimes dramatically improving them - , living a good life.
And, once you learn to address a specific kind of manipulation/power move, you will also unconsciously subcommunicate in your personal demeanor that you are not to be messed with. In other words, enforcement will become less and less necessary.
Also: if one has a history of past submissiviness, attempts to check power moves will be met with strong resistance initially. One needs to persevere though: there will be a point where the accumulated effort of all the push-backs will start producing results. From then on, things will be rolling downhill.
Quote from John Freeman on April 27, 2023, 6:23 pmOne can be the lowest of the lowest on the totem pole and still feel good about himself: "I'm a taxi cab, but I bring food on the table and my children are happy" or high on the totem pole and feel bad about himself: "I'm the vice-president of the US but I should be president, I'm such a loser".
I really like it. Just by changing perspective you can view yourself in a whole different light.
"I know my worth better than other do. I can still listen to their opinion, but in the final judgment I trust my own judgment more than I do theirs".
Its really simple, yet effective in shutting down negative beliefs about yourself.
Thanks John, Ill keep it in mind. Specially that about dissociating self worth from status.