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Cultivating Dominance Styles -
Hey Lucio, how's it going? I've been studying the early chapters of the Social Power course in preparation for taking on dominance battles (been sick the last couple weeks and using this as time to prepare) and I've been thinking over styles of dominance that I want to grow into. I originally bought this course to defend myself from manipulators, and I still do that, but the goal now is to go forth and make a better life for just not myself but the people around me. To do that I need to see where I'm at now, where I was and where I want to go.
When I was younger, I naturally fell into the Jester style, and the Charismatic and Seducer to a lesser extent. I would (largely unconsciously) use enormous amounts of energy, positivity, conviction, drive and sheer raw balls to draw attention on me, gain attraction from women and to project my presence outwards to control a social environment. It worked to a degree, but it had several critical failings. It didn't work on men much, it made it difficult to focus on a single person and even more difficult to slow down and see power moves - my own and others - within an immediate timeframe.
The result was that while I gained a lot of attention, attraction and people who wanted to know me, I was largely unable to actualize on it.
Now, more mature, battle-scarred and aware of power, I can still call on that to a lesser extent, but I am developing new forms of establishing dominance. First, by being aware of power moves and seeking win-win where I can. Second, focus on my mission, higher calling and what I love in life - this not only leads to a happy life but magnifies the charisma I can project. Finally, in the longer run, build up my body, mind and learn a skillset so that I can establish more stable sources of dominance in those arenas as well.
This will take a lot more work than what I effortlessly called on in the past, but it is worth it for the long-term stability it will provide.
Finally, in the present, a question - I noticed that when I am very calm and grounded and focused on my mission, I seem to dominate others without even trying. It's like others try to dominate me, but they run into a brick wall where they break on me, or alternatively respect me a lot more. In those moments I am serene, feeling little, and sharply aware; highly driven and energetic yet focused and calm and unyielding. In that state I am aware of power moves but am focused on the mission. I often getting people looking away just by dispassionately gazing at them and when I feel them trying to alter me I remain unmoving. Is this a form of cold-blooded style? Or an early, unreliable (since I haven't earned it yet) form of the 'been there done that' style?
I sincerely appreciate any insight you have, and have a great day Lucio :)
Hello Kellvo,
Some very, very good self-analysis there.
Yeah, the jester style is fun and it certainly has its power but, as you've noticed, also has its obvious downsides.
It's also relatively common for the jesters to lose chances. Sometimes the jester style also makes it difficult to even see and assess what the best prospects are. Some women -as well as men- will hang around because they're there for the fun, not just for sex/dating/romance or, in the case of men, to really become friends and allies. Some of them do are willing to go deeper, in all senses, but it might not be the ones who stick around the most. The better prospects might be the 3rd group of people he cheered with, but then he kept on going and those gals -and guys- just thought "oh well, he is being the same with everyone, not really interested in us maybe", and they self-reject, or take the jester less seriously.
Anyway, keep in mind that I am talking now from a written description so take it with a pinch of salt.
From the way you speak, it seems to be closer to a cold-blooded style. The heightened focus, lack or muted feelings/emotions, and natural high-dominance are also somewhat psychopathic traits, and the cold-blooded style feels somewhat psychopathic.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/illimitablemen.com/2016/09/19/dark-triad-archetypes-the-jester/amp/
“The court jester had the right to say the most outrageous things to the king. Everything was permitted during carnival, even the songs that the Roman legionnaires would sing, calling Julius Caesar ‘queen,’ alluding, in a very transparent way, to his real, or presumed, homosexual escapades.” – Umberto Eco
This Article has some interesting points about the jester archetype.
If some of you read it I would love to hear your opinions, I wil re-read it myself tonight.
From the way you speak, it seems to be closer to a cold-blooded style. The heightened focus, lack or muted feelings/emotions, and natural high-dominance are also somewhat psychopathic traits, and the cold-blooded style feels somewhat psychopathic.
The cold-blooded style makes a lot of sense. In fact, the more I mature, the more calm, detached, and focused I become. I notice I can turn on and off the 'morality switch' depending on how much it is relevant to me at a time - choose to care about family for example, but turn it off in a combat situation. Yes, I will focus on cultivating this style, and buttress it with other styles, particularly charismatic to add warmth to power.
I would still, as Lucio recommends in his Power University course, only court the cold-blooded style if it's a part of you already, or alternatively if you're facing very real death, whatever it's a severe survival situation or suicidal-level trauma. Ivan Throne in his Dark Triad Man blog describes Psychopathy as being either inborn, induced by trauma, or deliberately installed. I would consider myself as having tendencies, exacerbated by trauma. Such an choice is extreme, oftentimes situational and not for everyone, but if you're interested in the cold-blooded style it may be of use to you.
This Article has some interesting points about the jester archetype.
Ah, Illimitable Men, a classic source of male power. I see the similarity; it sounds like a mixture of the inherent childish tendencies of the Jester archetype described here (I can testify to that firsthand) combined with a calculated, Machiavellian approach to power. Playful and deadly at the same time, like a cat. It can allow for great aggression and mobility while wearing a socially acceptable façade, and in that way is similar to the Master of the Universe archetype described here as well.
It can be powerful, but by itself is a one trick pony. I've fought similar, and their weakness is that often they can't take what they dish out, and if their humor falls flat and the pretense is dropped, they are often left out of options. It is essentially a humor-based form of the intellectually dominant archetype. A useful tool to employ, but with many of the same weaknesses as that, and best employed as part of a larger arsenal.
Quote from Stef on August 24, 2020, 12:28 amhttps://www.google.com/amp/s/illimitablemen.com/2016/09/19/dark-triad-archetypes-the-jester/amp/
If some of you read it I would love to hear your opinions, I wil re-read it myself tonight.
Yes, very interesting points indeed.
I think I will read more from him, he has a sharp mind.
I personally think the jester has (far) less power than the author grants him, though.
Especially so in structured hierarchies he refers to.
The old courts matter little to us nowadays, but the same can be said for, say, workplaces.
In those cases, it's true that jesters can buck power... But only within (very) limited rails.
The trump card always rests with the real authority, who can kill (in the courts), fire (in business), or cut out from groups (leaders/organizers).
Even when it comes to crowd control, at the end of the day, people will always favor material benefits than a laugh. And they will always fear exclusion, punishment, or death far more than they fear being the butt of a joke.
For that reason, I wouldn't even compare the power of a jester to that of a leader with official authority.
The jester has comparatively far more power in more unstructured hierarchies, like a group of friends.
And yet even more power when it comes to even more loosely connected groups, like bars and social outings without hierarchies (yet).
In brief: the jester has the most power when the social hierarchies are still undefined.
However, as soon as hierarchies start forming, you can almost see the power of the jester wane.
I've personally experienced this more than once.
In the beginning, the jester holds sway, cracks jokes, puts pressure on people, and everyone listens to him -or fears they will be the butts of his jokes-.
But you can already see in the beginning that most jesters will avoid attacking the guys who seem the most socially confident and most leader-like in the groups.
As the group interactions move forward, the jester loses power.
Most people start taking the funny guy less and less seriously. Good for a laugh and a social entertainer, but little more.
Too mercurial and fickle, you cannot count on a jester for (social) support. Both when it comes to making alliances and friendships -or sexual choices-, which is what truly matters to most people, the jester is lower in power.
yes I get your point.
what about a guy like the joker? making jokes but also killing people.
well thats a fantasy character after all... I agree with kellvo: "best employed as part of a larger arsenal."
using a joker-by-proxy may be the way of employing jokes as weapons without having to become personally a clown, as Hamlet use the actors to discover his uncle guilt based on his reactions to the murder plot.
Hi Lucio
Kellvo stated in his current state (2020) that he comes off as cold-blooded. I have always noticed that I seem to intimidate and dominate others with out trying. I am non responsive when people jokes, smile, ask personal questions etc. My supervisor just today asked if I was OK because of some recent issues at work and she says I cant be read, to my response was "I'm good, just indifferent most of the time". I also am aware of my intense gaze making many, including men I know to be quite strong/dominate to avoid it and even change paths to not walk by me. I am quite aware of games and what people are up to, though I've never quite known how to combat, always just ignored, presently learning. I'm sure you get the idea. I am able to feign warmness though often don't care to.
In my reading you said the cold-blooded style is for people it comes naturally to. I would say the is me. So my question is what are the best ways to cultivate the cold-blooded style to better adapt and succeed in the world?
Thank you
Hello and welcome Zach! I know you're addressing Lucio, but I can also offer some insights. Yes, in 2020 I heavily adopted the Cold-Blooded style of dominance, both to deal with enemies and to keep a strong, stoic front up while I got shit together. It was very effective for managing emotions, detaching from people and observing games in progress. I noticed I still have a cold-blooded effect on occasion, particularly with certain women; a very high level of confidence, stoicism and/or serenity can mimic the cold-blooded style in many ways. And likely I have actively admitted having psychopathic tendencies; I suspect you are the same way, in which case Power Dynamics and Dominance likely comes naturally to you.
How is this cultivated, you ask? An excellent question. I'm going to go over several variants of it and how I accessed it:
- The Classical Psychopath - This is where you are amoral, detached and clear; you execute without thought for morality. It's still recognized as an abstract with practical uses, but not as something inherently valuable in and of itself. It's much easier if you're born with it; besides diagnosed psychopathy, highly rational individuals (and conversely highly instinctual individuals) as well as Autistic people can often take on psychopathic traits. Cultivating this form requires finding where it already exists within you - where would you abandon morality for a chosen purpose?
- The Trained Psychopath - The second form is where people try to train psychopathy into themselves. This is often done by different mental exercises and by a conscious choice to see the world in an amoral, cost/benefit analysis way. To cultivate this form, observe your moral judgments of all kinds and let them pass. Choose to see everything as a matter of utility (or lack thereof - and yes, you can suspend this for certain special people); Practice purely logical assessments and act on them and conversely act purely on instinct. Above all, recognize psychopathy as a survival response - it is the will to live, absent morality.
- The Serene Sociopath - The third method isn't so much a method as a way of looking at the world. It involves radically accepting life and all it involves, by minimizing needs and attachments, by letting go and emptying yourself. If this sounds a lot like Stoicism or Zen Buddhism to you, you're on the right track - they're excellent ways of cultivating this style. Deep meditation, ego death experiences, facing extreme fears, emptying thoughts and surrendering to something bigger all works - the latter varies from 'just following orders' to a singleminded devotion to purpose to devout worship where one empties themselves to serve a cause.
There are other variations, I am sure. The key point of this style is detachment. It is a very powerful style for pure dominance - but, as Lucio rightfully states, it by itself lacks warmth. That's where other styles come in. And the cold-blooded style is a spectrum - you don't always need to be 100% Putin-style cold-blooded. Often a healthy degree of detachment, along with the choice to attach to what is worthwhile to you, is the best way to both gain power and live an enjoyable life.
Quote from zachwehman on December 3, 2021, 7:28 pmIn my reading you said the cold-blooded style is for people it comes naturally to. I would say the is me. So my question is what are the best ways to cultivate the cold-blooded style to better adapt and succeed in the world?
Thank you
Hey Zach,
Welcome here.
Check out the forum guidelines in the signatures BTW, one of them is that you generally want to leave your question open -there is plenty of advanced and driven folks here, and I'm certainly not the only one who might provide good inputs, and often not the one with the best input-.
Indeed, you already received a good answer.
But now I'd like to ask you a very different question.
You already have that style within you.
Rather than looking for ways to adapt it, or take it to another level, how about you ask yourself how to open yourself up to wholly different styles?
For example, how to become more expressive, warm, or social?
Cold-blooded is a powerful style as you've noticed yourself, and if you want to stick with it, it's great.
But it might be worth trying to expand yourself out of your usual range of behavior.
You might also learn how to transcend some limitations to cold-blooded. Including relating, romancing, and seducing women, where the "gap" is often even bigger than with other men (might not be a coincidence you used the pronoun "she" for your supervisor who wasn't sure where you stood).
Thank you for the input. I tend to be in a Putin like cold state most of the time. I have often found myself looking at the world in matter of utility. I also have had interest in stoicism. A mix of the trained psychopath and serene sociopath and integrating a warmer style would seem a good course of action.
I look forward to implementing the advice I've received and any other that is added as well as contributing to this and other threads.
