Quote from Jack on February 22, 2023, 10:46 pm

I understand your situation, and those kind of relationship can start to feel heavy with time.

I had a friend, who I would always see one on one, and he was the kind of person who was always complaining about something and always envious of others. Our meetings would drain my energy and lower my mood.

What I did, and what I suggest you do is use the power university tactic of slowly fading him.

After the gym session, instead of hanging out with him,  just say you have to study or whatever excuse you can find… make yourself less available.

heads up: if you want to use the forum effectively, before asking a question introduce yourself.

 

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 23, 2023, 1:18 am

Yeah, +1 to what Jack said (including that it's a good approach to introduce oneself).

Yeah, fading is good, and you can do it with a combination of:

• Fading
• On-your-time (diminishing) offers if you don't see a change
• More demands to be around you (ie.: "no complaining", "no reckless driving", "no power moves", etc.)

All with an attitude of "we're still good and I still like you", BUT now it's gotta be on my terms.
The sub-communication is "we're still good but I chose differently for my life, if you want to meet me, it's on you to do the legwork and the personal development".

The first time you can say that you start some other class or online course you need to attend after the gym and can only do a quick coffee setup around your favorite time/place.

As for your question, I'm going to answer very frankly: yeah, I think you went too aggressive and nasty considering the sistuation/individual.
You're further ahead than this guy, and you generally don't want to pick up fights with those below you and "beat down".
That doesn't mean you gotta take his power moves and social jabs, but you can defend and/or hit back, even strongly, without getting too nasty.

All the popular techniques in PU would work including:

Him: you're a pussy
You: wait, what did you just say?

That's surfacing, with a bit of a stronger attitude.

Let him explain, and if he doesn't backtrack:

You: don't call me that way ever again dude

Quote from Maverick on February 23, 2023, 5:59 am

Hi Han,

You have an interesting situation on your hand, to remedy that situation a few stock answers/replies/ comebacks  are not going to be enough, as I see it, two choices fade him away like others suggested, second talk to him man to man..doing which you risk taking this relationship to its testing point, if it gives away you are left off better than having to deal with a toxic person, if the relationship does not give away, you will be in a mature relationship, but from my experience people with mental issues and past problems are always a handful to deal with, I would approach them carefully, lest I get bogged down into their issues.

Him: you're a pussy

Me: You're what you eat, no wonder you are a dick.

Mav

Quote from han160891 on February 23, 2023, 6:57 am

Thank you all for your responses.

I'm going to use slow fading. I don't want to entirely cut him off. The "we're still good, but let's tone it down a bit" approach seems fine.

I have a problem with 'surfacing', though. When you do that, some people can tell you're pretending not to hear/understand. Comes across as masking hurt feelings with deflection. Had I used it, he probably would've smiled and not said anything back, knowing I'm deflecting. Deflecting an attack like that looks like a lot of investment.

 

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 23, 2023, 9:37 am

Cheers Han, slow fading is solid.

And about this:

Quote from han160891 on February 23, 2023, 6:57 am

I have a problem with 'surfacing', though. When you do that, some people can tell you're pretending not to hear/understand. Comes across as masking hurt feelings with deflection. Had I used it, he probably would've smiled and not said anything back, knowing I'm deflecting. Deflecting an attack like that looks like a lot of investment.

 

There's a misunderstanding here.

You're not pretending anything -which would be quite weak indeed-.

Instead, you're checking the power move.
The intonation and sub-communication of "wait, what did you just say?" is not one of "can you please repeat", but more one of "what the fuck was that".

See for example Stewie in Family Guy (and no need for the theatrical pause and exaggerated expression of course):

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-Vp3_ppmk8k

Even if, even if he misunderstands you and actually thinks that you didn't get it, it doesn't matter.
It's about frame control then, and you still keep holding and pushing the frame of "what the fuck was that" until it's crystal clear.

For example:

Him: you're a pussy
You: wait, what did you just say?
Him: (smiles and says nothing)
You: what did you say man
Him: (smiles and says nothing)
You: please explain what you just said
Him: come on man, take it easy...

Now it's thread-expanded and clear that it was a "not OK" moment.
And that you're not cool with it, and you're not going to accept it.

BTW, I think it's also good to think nothing or little of "don't be a pussy" for the same reasons you just explained about this guy.
I may have simply said something like:

Hey man, this isn't about who's more reckless or not, it's about wanting to go home in one piece. If you wanna speed, I'm all for it... On a racetrack

Quote from han160891 on February 23, 2023, 11:06 am

 

Hey man, this isn't about who's more reckless or not, it's about wanting to go home in one piece. If you wanna speed, I'm all for it... On a racetrack

Perfect example of hitting back without the nastiness. So hard to execute but so important!