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Difference between "Cool Detective" and "Asking Why" when facing a break-up
Dear All, I am providing a feedback on one of Lucio's priceless article:
Here's What To Do When She Threatens to Break Up | The Power Moves
Here are two excerpts:
Cool Detective: Now, tell me. Why would you ever say that
- Asking “why, why, why”
It’s wrong because, of course, now she is looking for reasons why breaking up is a good idea
The article says that "why why" is wrong and "detective" is optimal. However, at a first glance, the detective is also asking "why".
My guess:
Cool detective is different from "asking why" because the former emotional state is calm, cool, stable, unwavering, empathic, and natural, while the "why, why" reaction is unstable, too emotional, dramatic, creepy, needy, and desperate. Though, the cool detect is still asking why, so there is a slight downside that the woman will be looking for reasons why breaking-up is a good idea. Overall, the detective is the optimal strategy.
Could you please discuss your thoughts? Thanks in advance.
I find all of Lucio's articles priceless and by providing the feedback, I am seeking more knowledge as a student. Let me know if this post is posted at the correct sub-forum.
Anyone wants to take a guess at this one?
Different frame. Why would you say that is putting the focus on the dramatic behaviour and questioning her motives. It's the question of somebody who understands that women often communicate indirectly. It also avoids the dynamic of you chasing and her withdrawing.
Same page as Kevin.
The cool detective is proactive.
The triple "why" is reactive.
Like what Kevin mentions, the cool detective remains calm and breaks her dramatic frame.
It assertively encourages direct talk.
It is empathetic through digging deeper and showing you want to listen.
Altogether while showing disdain for the threatening behaviour.
Asking "why" in the first context is pleading.
Especially if you ask "why" the first time unassertively, she does not address your question, and you ask "why" again.
This is what Kevin highlights about the cool detective approach.
You avoid the dynamic of you chasing and her withdrawing.
Quote from Matthew Whitewood on May 27, 2021, 4:02 pmSame page as Kevin.
The cool detective is proactive.
The triple "why" is reactive.Like what Kevin mentions, the cool detective remains calm and breaks her dramatic frame.
It assertively encourages direct talk.
It is empathetic through digging deeper and showing you want to listen.
Altogether while showing disdain for the threatening behaviour.Asking "why" in the first context is pleading.
Especially if you ask "why" the first time unassertively, she does not address your question, and you ask "why" again.This is what Kevin highlights about the cool detective approach.
You avoid the dynamic of you chasing and her withdrawing.
Many thanks Matthew, Lucio, and Transitioned for helping me! Very intellectual. Indeed, the frame and the chasing-withdrawing dynamics are important and I over-looked them.
In a non-dramatic case, where she calmly state that: "Because people must be respectful, I need you to stop using my childhood nickname, otherwise I cannot continue with you."
What shall we do?
From my TPM studying, I guess that we have two options here. I can be wrong of course.
- If it is a small thing, I can comply with her frame, as she is calm and not value-taking dramatic.
- Still do the detective. Collect more information. For example, I can calmly ask her that why this nickname is not respectful: this question won't guide her to find out more reasons for break-up. Then, finally try to reframe and end with a win-win frame.
What is your thought?
Hmm can't imagine a girl saying that. More likely is something like. Don't call me that, nobody calls me that.
Women normally attack through group norms.
Sure babe. So I feel like takeaway tonight. You want Chinese or Mexican.
Counter her drama with matter of factness and withdrawal of attention. Or reassurance.
You can't put up with ultimatums. No women is worth walking on eggshells
Replying to the original question:
Yes, as already expressed by Kevin and Matthew.
Maybe the original article didn't make it clear enough, but the "why, why, why", is not really about asking why.
And much less so about going to the crux of the matter -which is what the detective is about-.
It's about fear, pleading, and losing one's heads.
Why it fails?
"Why, why, why" relinquishes leadership and gives up all power and control.
It's actually more similar to "please, please, please", than to "let's see where we're at" or, even higher power, "let me see what you're made of and if I still wanna be with you".
Often, men reacting with the "why, why, why" are hoping that:
- she won't have a "good enough why"
- she will realize so by herself
- she will then convince herself that things are OK,
- and that she will make him feel good again.
If you've noticed that in all that process there isn't one proactive action from him, you're right.
That's the crux of giving up leadership and control, and transferring all power to her.
Quote from Transitioned on May 28, 2021, 12:49 pmHmm can't imagine a girl saying that. More likely is something like. Don't call me that, nobody calls me that.
Women normally attack through group norms.
Sure babe. So I feel like takeaway tonight. You want Chinese or Mexican.
Counter her drama with matter of factness and withdrawal of attention. Or reassurance.
You can't put up with ultimatums. No women is worth walking on eggshells
Hi Transitioned sorry for the super-late reply. The quote was actually taken from my real-life dates: "Because people must be respectful, I need you to stop using my childhood nickname, otherwise I cannot continue with you."
Indeed most girls are dramatic. This girl was still dramatic - a nickname elicited a huge reaction; though she is usually less dramatic than average.
Hmm. At that point I wouldn't care much I don't like drama queens. The response that comes to my mind is. "No worries I m sure I can come up with a better nickname."
At that point I d probably try a state change. Move her so I could pre-emt her next speech.
Funny thing is I can naturally play all these dating games but struggle with office politics
IME, 'why' questions are not ideal.
Anything that starts with a 'why' takes you towards thinking, analyzing... most of this is not the preferred way of communication for women. This is why we men think that they don't make sense. Making sense is totally optional when your way of communication is based on feelings. This is also why Deida and others say that for women, truth is not absolute (like it is for anyone trying to be rational, like most men). Men have to have a 'word', if they promise something, they have to do it. Promises, truth,... is all transitory for women, because it's all about feelings. They felt in the moment that you are the most amazing man in the world. What they said at that time was transitory to that frame. When they are bitching about you not doing the dishes, their emotional frame is very different. Then you are not amazing. You are the same person. But this is how you perceive the world when feelings are more important than reason.
Asking why questions is forcing the conversation into rational mode. Which is a bit of a stretch for a woman. They can do it, but they prefer not to. And it definitely will not help with big emotional topics like threatening a break up. Before we go into analyzing power dynamics (@lucio is spot on as usual; the 'why why why' asker lost all power), we can just understand that you cannot fix a breakup as you are solving equations, or doing root cause analysis.
