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Excuse me vs Apologies vs Sorry

#1 · August 22, 2022, 6:35 pm

Hello guys,

here are some thoughts around the question: what is the difference between "Excuse me", "Apologies" and "Sorry". Knowing that we are talking about the English language here and that there might not be the exact equivalent/meaning in your respective language. The importance of these words may seem small, but they are big since we use it many times every day, so a small tweak can have high impact (many little drops make a river).

From more dominant (and less collaborative) to less dominant and more collaborative:

1. Sorry

This one has been explored in and out by Lucio in PU. The only thing I will add is that it is one-sided: when you say "sorry", you don't need and don't expect an answer. So it's more dominant

2. Apologies

Here, it seems to me that there is more an element of acknolwedging a fault. So by self-humility we are closer to an equal-to-equal relationship. Here you still don't need the other person to reply.

3. Excuse me

Here, there is more of a submissive stance. You ask forgiveness to the other person so you expect the person to accept or not your excuse. However, the power lies in the potential of bringing you closer to the other person since you made yourself vulnerable. So as Cavalier smartly noticed, there is a tension between collaboration and dominance.

I'm experimenting with this. What I learned so far is that when you're saying "excuse me", you create a power differential against you. So it can be a mistake if you say it in a situation when it's not warranted or it can be strategic when you were very or overly dominant/high power and want to fit in the group again. I also avoid saying "Sorry" to a superior when a "Excuse me" is warranted.

I'm happy to hear your thoughts on this.

Cheers!

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#2 · August 22, 2022, 11:29 pm

Quote from Kavalier on August 22, 2022, 11:29 pm
Hello, John
Great post, thanks for sharing your thoughts and for the mention!
I wrote a previous post, but immediately upon posting it, I started to reflect on it, and I changed my mind.
I actually think excuse me is somewhat closer to I'm sorry when we use it in the sense of asking/demanding/assuming forgiveness. But you are right, apologies are consistently more submissive.
It might look like that I'm disagreeing with Lucio here, but actually these are my interpratations of he teaches us in PU
I’m sorry: more often than not, it’s a green flag. Use it and accept it when appropriate
And I’d argue that both “sorry” and “excuse me” are inherently not dominant. We can tone up the submissiveness:
Please, excuse-me
I’m really sorry
Excuse-me, I’m late [volunteering an explanation, which hands the evaluating power to the interlocutor]
When used in a dominant context, we actually use it to soften that dominance a little bit
Excuse-me, I’m late [Offers no explanation] (subtext: I acknowledge there is a social rule and I broke it. I may try not to do this again. But I don’t think it’s a big deal and you shouldn’t either). Full dominance could be not even to acknowledge the break in social conventions.
[bumps into someone] I’m sorry/excuse-me [delivered with a flat/angry tonality]. It's dominant and aggressive. But not full dominance. Full dominance could be again not to say anything, to answer eventual protests with a “yeah, I did, so what”, inviting confrontation etc
Some of these uses are pretty legitimate. Excuse-me/I’m sorry are enough if you are a little bit late, inadvertently bumped into someone, or mildly offended someone, so they’re not power moves. These are green flags that the person gets it. (“I apologize” would be quite unproportional. It goes too far into the submissiveness end of the spectrum for these trivial situations)
But it can be also be a power move (or, I’d argue, can disctract your attention from the actual power move)
I believe Lucio is totally right when he tells us to watch out for "I'm sorry" power moves, and that lesson was eye-opening to me, but I think what we have to watch out is what comes together with them.
I think that “I’m sorry” actually preface the power move, instead of being the power move per se. We must be careful with it because, in their least damaging uses, they are just token admission of guilt when asking for forgiveness is due.
In their nastiest utterations, they’re actually deceitful:
"I’m sorry/Excuse me, (but) I have to tell you this". The problem is in the implicit or explicit “but”. We sometimes omit the conjunction (but) in compound sentences, but the adversativity is still there. The second sentence is the actual message. (I’m sorry/excuse-me) is just one step behind just outright telling them whatever you want to say.
“I’m sorry I called you an incompetent in front of everybody” (you are an incompetent, I mean that and I’ll tell you again in case you forgot. Social conventions hold it that I shouldn’t say it in front of everybody, though, and I don’t want to be seem as antisocial – but the antisocial effect of this action can be erased if I say these magical words, which you’re bound to accept by the same conventions)
Why deceitful? Because they’re thread-expanding on the power move while pretending to be pro-social. If you don’t watch out, you’ll gladly take the blow and still thank them for being so kind.
To further argue that the problem is not in the “I’m sorry/excuse me”, I believe that “I apologize for calling you an incompetent in front of everybody” will have a similar effect if we don’t address the “you are an incompetent” element (especially if followed by a “but”)
Thank you, John, it's a very provocative discussion. I’m also curious to hear everyone’s thoughts on this.

Hello, John

Great post, thanks for sharing your thoughts and for the mention!

I wrote a previous post, but immediately upon posting it, I started to reflect on it, and I changed my mind.

I actually think excuse me is somewhat closer to I'm sorry when we use it in the sense of asking/demanding/assuming forgiveness. But you are right, apologies are consistently more submissive.

It might look like that I'm disagreeing with Lucio here, but actually these are my interpratations of he teaches us in PU

I’m sorry: more often than not, it’s a green flag. Use it and accept it when appropriate

And I’d argue that both “sorry” and “excuse me” are inherently not dominant. We can tone up the submissiveness:

Please, excuse-me
I’m really sorry
Excuse-me, I’m late [volunteering an explanation, which hands the evaluating power to the interlocutor]

When used in a dominant context, we actually use it to soften that dominance a little bit

Excuse-me, I’m late [Offers no explanation] (subtext: I acknowledge there is a social rule and I broke it. I may try not to do this again. But I don’t think it’s a big deal and you shouldn’t either). Full dominance could be not even to acknowledge the break in social conventions.
[bumps into someone] I’m sorry/excuse-me [delivered with a flat/angry tonality]. It's dominant and aggressive. But not full dominance. Full dominance could be again not to say anything, to answer eventual protests with a “yeah, I did, so what”, inviting confrontation etc

Some of these uses are pretty legitimate. Excuse-me/I’m sorry are enough if you are a little bit late, inadvertently bumped into someone, or mildly offended someone, so they’re not power moves. These are green flags that the person gets it. (“I apologize” would be quite unproportional. It goes too far into the submissiveness end of the spectrum for these trivial situations)

But it can be also be a power move (or, I’d argue, can disctract your attention from the actual power move)

I believe Lucio is totally right when he tells us to watch out for "I'm sorry" power moves, and that lesson was eye-opening to me, but I think what we have to watch out is what comes together with them.

I think that “I’m sorry” actually preface the power move, instead of being the power move per se. We must be careful with it because, in their least damaging uses, they are just token admission of guilt when asking for forgiveness is due.

In their nastiest utterations, they’re actually deceitful:

"I’m sorry/Excuse me, (but) I have to tell you this". The problem is in the implicit or explicit “but”. We sometimes omit the conjunction (but) in compound sentences, but the adversativity is still there. The second sentence is the actual message. (I’m sorry/excuse-me) is just one step behind just outright telling them whatever you want to say.
“I’m sorry I called you an incompetent in front of everybody” (you are an incompetent, I mean that and I’ll tell you again in case you forgot. Social conventions hold it that I shouldn’t say it in front of everybody, though, and I don’t want to be seem as antisocial – but the antisocial effect of this action can be erased if I say these magical words, which you’re bound to accept by the same conventions)

Why deceitful? Because they’re thread-expanding on the power move while pretending to be pro-social. If you don’t watch out, you’ll gladly take the blow and still thank them for being so kind.

To further argue that the problem is not in the “I’m sorry/excuse me”, I believe that “I apologize for calling you an incompetent in front of everybody” will have a similar effect if we don’t address the “you are an incompetent” element (especially if followed by a “but”)

Thank you, John, it's a very provocative discussion. I’m also curious to hear everyone’s thoughts on this.

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#3 · August 23, 2022, 11:05 pm

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on August 23, 2022, 11:05 pm
I agree with Kavalier on the importance of the situation/context.
In the cases where you have done anything that cost the other person, or when you've done a mistake, then "I'm sorry" is a green flag of a good character.
When it comes to "ranking", the obvious notes are that context matters a lot, and how you say matters more than the actual words.
By "apologies" do you guys mean like giving a lengthier apologies, or saying something like "my apologies"?
Because personally I rank "(my) apologies" as higher power/dominance than "sorry" or "excuse me".
It feels very neutral to me.
While "I'm sorry" has an emotional element of empathy (and guilt), "apologies" doesn't.
So in terms of higher power to more submissive, I'd list something like:
My bad
Apologies
Sorry man* (or any other similar word for "man" that cuts down the social distance between you two)
I'm sorry
Excuse me
Quote from Kavalier on August 22, 2022, 11:29 pm
I believe Lucio is totally right when he tells us to watch out for "I'm sorry" power moves, and that lesson was eye-opening to me, but I think what we have to watch out is what comes together with them.
I think that “I’m sorry” actually preface the power move, instead of being the power move per se. We must be careful with it because, in their least damaging uses, they are just token admission of guilt when asking for forgiveness is due.
Thank you for this, Kavalier!
I made a note and I'll probably clarify that lesson along these lines in the next update.
Your approach clarifies the difference between the green flag, and the power move.
And it's either on what comes next indeed, or what's in the context already -ie.: if you're asking a girl "why didn't you reply to me" and she just says "I'm sorry", that may be an honest apology on her side, but it's still disempowering to you as it thread-expands on you wanting her reply, and her ignoring you-.
Edit:
Typos, explanation of why "apologies" is more neutral, and fixing the ranking

I agree with Kavalier on the importance of the situation/context.

In the cases where you have done anything that cost the other person, or when you've done a mistake, then "I'm sorry" is a green flag of a good character.

When it comes to "ranking", the obvious notes are that context matters a lot, and how you say matters more than the actual words.

By "apologies" do you guys mean like giving a lengthier apologies, or saying something like "my apologies"?

Because personally I rank "(my) apologies" as higher power/dominance than "sorry" or "excuse me".
It feels very neutral to me.
While "I'm sorry" has an emotional element of empathy (and guilt), "apologies" doesn't.

So in terms of higher power to more submissive, I'd list something like:

My bad
Apologies
Sorry man* (or any other similar word for "man" that cuts down the social distance between you two)
I'm sorry
Excuse me

Quote from Kavalier on August 22, 2022, 11:29 pm
I believe Lucio is totally right when he tells us to watch out for "I'm sorry" power moves, and that lesson was eye-opening to me, but I think what we have to watch out is what comes together with them.
I think that “I’m sorry” actually preface the power move, instead of being the power move per se. We must be careful with it because, in their least damaging uses, they are just token admission of guilt when asking for forgiveness is due.

Thank you for this, Kavalier!

I made a note and I'll probably clarify that lesson along these lines in the next update.

Your approach clarifies the difference between the green flag, and the power move.
And it's either on what comes next indeed, or what's in the context already -ie.: if you're asking a girl "why didn't you reply to me" and she just says "I'm sorry", that may be an honest apology on her side, but it's still disempowering to you as it thread-expands on you wanting her reply, and her ignoring you-.

Edit:
Typos, explanation of why "apologies" is more neutral, and fixing the ranking

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#4 · August 23, 2022, 11:46 pm

Hello, Lucio

Thank you for the lesson and for breaking down further the concept in this thread.

I also think that uttering “apologies” or something along those lines are quite dominant.

Adding that to the list:

My bad
Apologies
Excuse me
I'm sorry
Sorry man* (or any other similar word for "man" that cuts down the social distance between you two)
Forgive me
I apologize

Excuse me sounds a bit more dominant than I’m sorry to my ears. It’s a little bit above in the formality scale (words that entered English language via French tend to be regarded as fancier), so it emphasizes the social distance. But the main reason is that I think it’s normally uttered more as a command than a request (when we are interrupting, when we want other to step aside, when we’re late but don’t quite care).

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