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Girls rejecting seduction.
Cheers guys.
There's a common trend in girls Im flirting with or having playful frame battles that catches my attention: "they deny to acknowledge my frames" or simply "they interrupt/deny the seduction process"
E.g:
X: I can't pass this subject I'm bad at this subject.
PD: don't say that, if you study with time and ask the teacher I'm sure you'll be able to pass it.
X: no, I wont. I'm not good at it. (Not with a defeated tone but rather an indifferent one, as if they simply didn't want to give me power by following the encouraging frame, even if it was value adding)
X tells something that disempowers me.
PD flips the frame around so it doesn't anymore.
X: ok power duck.
PD: ok X
I was also teaching another girl from class and she was telling me things like: "yeah I already knew that", "yeah and?".
Some of those women task and/or are high power.
Any thoughts?
Hello Power Duck,
with the information above, I would say that it's probably because a sexual vibe is introduced before a social rapport is built. Another possibility is that there is too much pull (seek rapport) without balancing with enough push (breaking rapport). Another one could be that they feel that you want something from them so there could be too much chasing (goes back to previous remark).
So not easy to diagnose without observing the interaction (body language: how close you are, how much you're smiling, etc.).
In terms of mindsets, maybe this could help to think that you're in there to attract not to seduce. They get seduced. Otherwise if one has the identity of a seducer, there is the risk of over-chasing.
Finally, there is also a matter of style, we all have ours. That also means that not all girls will respond to your style and/or be attracted to you no matter what you do.
So there's also about selecting the girls you want to flirt with. We cannot attract every and all women.
Now, in the particular interaction:
X: I can't pass this subject I'm bad because of that.
PD: don't say that, if you study with time and ask the teacher I'm sure you'll be able to pass it.
Here you not only task her but reject her frame. So I think it's a bit disempowering to her and/or challenges her identity, even if positively. Her you come "from above" instead from an equal standpoint. Now she has only 2 choices: accept your frame or reject it. Personally: 1. this could be the opportunity of teasing: "Yeah you're going to be a bum and work at McDonald's" (with a smile). 2. or opportunity for empathy: "So you feel you're not good in this topic" and listen to her to relate to her and understand her -> focus more on her needs/desires than on yours.
X: no, I wont. I'm not good at it. (Not with a defeated tone but rather an indifferent one, as if they simply didn't want to give me power by following the encouraging frame, even if it was value adding)
Here she rejects the frame, probably because it came across that you know better than her (one-up) and she prefers to be in control of her identity for the price of keeping the negative identity.
So another idea would be to listen more maybe.
From my point of view you learned that being high power and/or teasing/flirting are powerful tools. They are. But they have their limitations. So maybe you could consider learning other communication tools. You know yourself better. Maybe one or more ideas above resonate with you.
Personally, I tease little (way less than I used to do). To me, it's more like a sniper tool to me: 1 shot, maybe 2 shots, max 3 shots at the right time, then go back to serious. If one over-teases (not what you did here) one risks to come across as a player and put women on the defensive (increases the shit-tests in my experience).
So to me it's about the dance between relating/connecting/listening/empathising and teasing/flirting.
I could be wrong as I said: I did not witness the interaction(s). As Lucio says: shooting a bit in the dark here.
Thanks John.
Seems like in order to improve I'll have to enter the more advanced level :), good.
OFF TOPIC
I'm wondering if although this "good" is directed towards this fact that affects me if it's still a judge power move.
If it is feel free to tell me, if not feel free to ignore.
END OFF TOPIC
I think you're on point, I believe my flirting style is really player-like, in fact a girl some time ago told me that it looked as if I was "playing" with people, and that she didn't had good experiences with the people that were that way. Narcissistic with an air of thinking you're the shit while being playful is the vibe that I get in my mind.
So that could explain things, also the coming from above makes sense, those girls were high value and attractive so higher power and more power aware than the average.
Overall, yep I think that the coming from above part makes sense, I'll try not pulling so many games and being more power protecting. As well as building more rapport from now on, although being more "gamey" can be fun I can understand why it makes them more likely to pull shit test. I'll have to check some seducer archetypes in movies to perfect my game.
Cheers.
Glad that it makes sense to you, Power Duck.
OFF TOPIC
It is a judge power move to me. I noticed it but no biggie it's all good. Thanks for your note.
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Well, it's practice and back and forth between theory, feed-back and practice. It does takes time and many mistakes to improve. One cannot go faster than the music as we say in French. So your commitment and dedication will give results over time. We're all learning dating through the same process. The learner mindset is helpful in that regard and getting out of our comfort zone.
Thanks John. Both for the encouragement and the note about the "good" (may use it more often since it seems to be a win win for both parts in my opinion). I'm recently seeing that dating as a high quality guy sets one apart from the rest. And agree, when one separates his ego from his skills and focuses on improving things become way easier.
Hello Power Duck,
Off-topic
It seems I was not clear enough. As we learned here it’s better to avoid power moves if not warranted (self re-empower or self-defense). If we do we position ourselves superior to the other person and most people don’t like that (me included). So it’s better to avoid it as it can backfire and destroy social capital (in all kinds of relationships).
However, to me you’re a cool guy and we all make mistakes. So in this case I meant that it did not affect my end of the relationship with you. I understood you did not intend to do it and the fact that you pointed at it is the proof of it.
Sometimes we’re not aware we’re doing it so the forum is useful in that regard to unlearn these behaviours. This is helpful to make friends rather than (secret) enemies (speaking generally here, not about this case).
/Off topic
Same with the examples of the girls above. I think they actually re-empower themselves and/or defend from the teacher/coach frame (“I already knew that” = you are actually not above nor my teacher).
So that might be the actual root cause of these interactions. Probably these women resist your leadership more than the seduction. You can judge better having been in these interactions.
Going back to solutions I think it goes back to removing teacher frames (I went through the same process and I still do it sometimes). Then once one is more aware of them one can use them when warranted: if the girl has a question for instance and/or when you already have rapport and she sees it as value adding rather than one-upping. So being a leader/teacher is great. It’s a matter of when, how and with who. To lead/teach someone there must be a certain amount of trust I believe.
I hope it makes sense to you.
Thanks for the added feedback about being a leader/tasking John. That definetely made me realize more things.
OFF TOPIC
About the power move I'll post it in feedback and clarifications since I committed a mistake while writing possibly leading to a misunderstanding.
END OFF TOPIC
Cheers.
Yeah, absolutely tough to give proper diagnosis or advice on this without observing.
May be that it's simply about generlaly improving the vibe/delivery/behavior (ie.: generally going to the next level).
Generally speaking, women are more socially competent and much higher value than men at a young age.
So being attractive/successful/accepted as "more" and higher power is the exception rather than the norm at that age group.
Thanks Lucio.
Generally speaking, women are more socially competent and much higher value than men at a young age.
So being attractive/successful/accepted as "more" and higher power is the exception rather than the norm at that age group.
I agree. And, knowing that, I wont conform with being part of the norm.
May be that it's simply about generlaly improving the vibe/delivery/behavior (ie.: generally going to the next level).
I'm glad to know that, makes even more noticeable how much I've progressed :D.
Cheers.
