Quote from Transitioned on October 17, 2020, 11:42 pm

My goal's really just to make it through to Xmas and bank some more cash as there's no jobs in Melbourne this year.  Next year we can travel again so I can look interstate and in NZ (my home country).  I'll probably pull the pin at that point as there's too many toxic people here to make it worth staying.

 

Quote from John Freeman on October 18, 2020, 1:34 pm

Ok, so my understanding is that:

1. You have a difficult/competitive relationship with a marketing manager
2. Your boss thinks you should sort it out yourself.

So this is my opinion for a plan:

1. As a general mindset: use detachment, as it seems you go caught in your emotions in this situation and you cannot see clearly enough.
2. Improve your relationship with the marketing manager: "...keep your enemies closer"
3. Improve your relationship with your boss in an adequate way: respectful, warm, not sucking up to him/her
4. Focus on improving your skills: "be so good you can't be fucked with"
5. Focus on improving your relationship with your team.

I know the general advice would be to try to climb up, but that is why you became vulnerable in the first place. I think you should focus on your closer team and the quality of your work. I know it's contrarian advice and Lucio might not agree with me. But to me you need to have solid foundations first. You need to feel in control. You need to get respected by everyone. So, when lies like this come out, very few people would believe it.

That's my way of dealing with such situations. And then, time is your ally. Otherwise, you're too dependent on other people's actions. One last thing, I think it's good to focus on the larger picture. You're there only for a time, so it's a good opportunity to learn about office politics without getting sucked into it.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 18, 2020, 9:16 pm

In these cases, I'd seek to make a reputation of a steel player above reproach.

It's important in these environments that you always follow procedures and SOPs, and that you make a reputation for someone who delivers thorough work, dotting all "Is" and crossing all "Ts".

With that strong reputation, the attack will bounce off of you and come back to bite the attacker's ass.

Handling smear campaign: the "I'm too professional to deal with this shit" strategy

When refuting an accusation, you also want to remain cold and detached.

As a rule of thumb, you absolutely don't want to waste time fighting small-time lies.

Why not?
Think it this way: the thread you amplify is the thread that sticks to your name and builds your reputation.

When you spend too much effort fighting small-time lies, you expand a harmful thread and attach your name to small-time lies.

You get enmeshed in small-time politics when you instead want to look superior and impervious to them.

Showing the emails: the "I'm a professional" strategy

You can still show the emails as proof of course, and you probably should.

But when you do so, you show them unemotional, nonchalantly, as if to say:

"look at this, of course I followed procedure and got her approval, because that's just how I work" (<- you move from "this instance" to "how I am")

It's almost as if you were saying "this person is a liar, and I'm a professional. And I'm such a next-level professional, that I don't even take it personally".
Then, you end with this power move:

You: Well, I guess some people sometimes forget something. Or maybe they aren't too forthcoming, I don't know. Whatever, that's also part of work sometimes. Anyway... (<- power move: you ain't gonna waste anymore time with this idiot)

You have the proof, the frame of "professional VS liar" is set. So you can easily go superior and frame the liar without wasting any more time.

Then here comes a good power move: you ask your boss how you can support her.
It's as if you say "now done with the BS of this small-time liar, let's get do the good shit".

Now your boss has a marketing manager who spread lies and wastes her time with small-time politics, and a guy who delivers and seeks to add value to the person who matters the most her: herself.
Guess who wins?

Quote from John Freeman on October 18, 2020, 10:08 pm

It's almost as if you were saying "this person is a liar, and I'm a professional. And I'm such a next-level professional, that I don't even take it personally".

Boom.

Now your boss has a marketing manager who spread lies and wastes her time with small-time politics, and a guy who delivers and seeks to add value to the person who matters the most her: herself.

Guess who wins?

Good stuff!

Quote from John Freeman on October 21, 2020, 6:43 am

Hello Lucio,

I have a question for you regarding gossip and smear campaign. I talked yesterday with a male nurse who gave me good pointers about how to deal with a group of frustrated females at the hospital. I also could talk to him about the disappointment with the nursing profession as a whole.

My question to you is: would you ask someone what people say about you behind your back?

I think the advantage is to know how you are perceived or what has been amplified and distorted. The disadvantage is that it can be hurtful and actually give power to the gossipers. I would say that as a learner this information can be useful.

What do you think?

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 22, 2020, 12:43 am

Very interesting question, John.

How OK or not OK that is, depends in large part on:

1. What's the relationship between you two
2. What type of individual that is

As well as:

• What level you both are at

---

Some quick, unstructured thoughts on this (without proofreading):

In PU I talk about the strategy of "brothers in arms".
And one of the great advantages of brothers in arms is that you grow eyes and ears to bring you back information when you're not there. Which is exactly what my BiA and I did for each other -still incredulous as to how many people failed to realize that it wasn't exactly a smart idea to talk shit about me to my BiA, and vice versa-.

So the first answer to that question is: it's OK if you are very close to him/her.
As a matter of fact, if you are very close, you might not even need to ask, and you will get warnings about this or that person saying this or that about you.

What type of individual he is also matters a lot.
There are people who live for gossip, gossiping for gossiping's sake rather than improving their work and social strategies. These types would give you lots of unneeded details, then turn around and equally gossip about you.
And they'd say something like "John said this, and that".
When that happens, you start getting a reputation for someone who gossips, and that would taint your reputation as a goal-oriented doer.

On the other hand, if he were a straight shooter who'd warn you about useful info and then not turn around and spread more gossip, then he might be a good source of intel.

The levels you're both at also matters.
Usually, there is more to lose for higher paygrades to get too tight with lower ones when it comes to political insight sharing.
Other nurses might think you're playing favorites, and people of higher levels might think you're not ready for promotions if your closest connections are lower, rather than higher.
Finally, there is a risk lower level-employees might use their closeness with you to brag, or to name-drop you to gain status, and that would taint your reputation as a super-partes, goal-oriented guy.

How to Ask

All that being said, I still think that with some smart maneuvering, you can get good intel without exposing yourself too much.

For example, you can drop some comments like this:

You: Ahaha yeah, I can imagine some of those other nurses must hate me / the other residents

If he shares something, you might drop some more comments, like:

You: Uff, I can totally see that. Sometimes I wonder why, I have nothing against her (<- this is good, so in case this conversation gets out, you can even gain, as you indirectly sends out an olive branch that might mend relationships)

Basically, you never really ask.
You more like drop comments.
And you never appear like you're too gossip-thirsty, but you act superior. Just somewhat "curious" and "entertained" by the information-sharing.

To get something more, you also share some of your own, of course. Just make sure it doesn't sound like you're complaining, or like you're hating on anyone.
If you want to say something bad about someone, say it as a joke. A laugh and eyeroll, as if to say, "God, that one" says everything you need to say about someone, without having to say it. And you act value-adding and uplifting. The type of guy people want to spend time with and be close to.

Quote from Transitioned on October 22, 2020, 4:22 pm

Thanks  both, profound  advice. It's going to take a bit of time to internalise and action. Interestingly I m at second round for a gig at a large  govt dept which would be more structured .  It would make the too good to fuck with approach easier .

Quote from John Freeman on October 28, 2020, 2:33 pm

How To Ask

All that being said, I still think that with some smart maneuvering, you can get good intel without exposing yourself too much.

For example, you can drop some comments like this:

You: Ahaha yeah, I can imagine some of those other nurses must hate me / the other residents

If he shares something, you might drop some more comments, like:

You: Uff, I can totally see that. Sometimes I wonder why, I have nothing against her (<- this is good, so in case this conversation gets out, you can even gain, as you indirectly sends out an olive branch that might mend relationships)

Basically, you never really ask.
You more like drop comments.
And you never appear like you're too gossip-thirsty, but you act superior. Just somewhat "curious" and "entertained" by the information-sharing.

To get something more, you also share some of your own, of course. Just make sure it doesn't sound like you're complaining, or like you're hating on anyone.
If you want to say something bad about someone, say it as a joke. A laugh and eyeroll, as if to say, "God, that one" says everything you need to say about someone, without having to say it. And you act value-adding and uplifting. The type of guy people want to spend time with and be close to.

Thank you very much Lucio! I read it sometime ago but had trouble finding it again. This is very good and I think that you could re-use it in PU.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 28, 2020, 9:31 pm

Linked to it!