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hi, slightly confused but love the site

My question is how is power related to love? How can someone be sure whether someone is real or dangerously fake and wanting to hurt you in the end?

Does love actually exist in this framework at all?

My basic experience is that you need to be seen as higher value before showing any sort of caring behaviour or as it seen as some kind of weakness, is that true?

The bottom line though is nobody is really higher value than others anyway so it's actually some sort of collective delusion, isn't it? I have noticed that the extreme power players seem to lose sight of this reality totally. They actually see weakness in people who are actually unbeatable without physical violence - i.e. if you are not playing any game then you often can't lose but others may hate you if they lose sight of this true reality.

Also, it seems there are so many different types of people that many won't be playing the game at all or even want any of the usual things so can you tell in advance what they are like? I think some just want some kind of friendship and assume others are the same as them, sometimes.

Hey truth, welcome here!

Difficult to give a proper answer to all your questions as it's more than one, and some of them go very deep.

Just some quick thoughts: yes, it's possible that if you show caring without power, it can be perceived as a kind of weakness.
We see it often with men who are too kind towards women who don't consider them as good dating opportunities, and look down on them.

And it's also true that collaborative frames without power will be seen as weakness and people might be trying to take advantage of you.

That's why the goal is not to just collaborate, but to seek fruitful collaboration from a position of strength.
You make yourself into someone who can put value on the table of whatever negotiation in life you go through. And then seek others who also have plenty to put on that table, and who are willing to collaborate and go for win-win.

Quote from truthsayer76 on May 22, 2020, 4:01 am

The bottom line though is nobody is really higher value than others anyway so it's actually some sort of collective delusion, isn't it?

Would you rather go out with your best friends this weekend, or with a random homeless guy?

Would you rather go on a date with a random model, or with the cantankerous, always bitter lady at the office?

The funny thing is that you don't even need to pick your friend or the model. Any choice you make when it comes to people shows that different people do hold different values to different people.
So, no, I don't think that it's a collective delusion.

 

Kellvo has reacted to this post.
Kellvo
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

You've seen a lot of battles, haven't you? I understand completely. The truth can scar you. But you must not look back. Look it in the eye, face it head on, and get through to the other side. I promise you, having been there myself, that your anguish won't last forever.

I won't mince words. Value, of all kinds, is a thing. It comes from a perception that one cannot fulfill all their needs themselves and therefore needs to acquire value from others to get what they need. Love and Power, and yes they are linked, both come from this. Love (and hate) in its simplest terms is investment. How much time, money, energy etc., are you willing to sacrifice for something (whatever to benefit or harm it), in relation to something else? (I.e. opportunity cost) Power is the degree that you can alter things (including people) and/or remain unaltered when needed. And a major form of power is getting others invested in you.

Yes, 'value' is fundamentally illusory, and one can argue the same is true for anything in the same way Buddhists say our world is ultimately an illusion. But this does not stop the core dynamic any more than a lion will stop eating meat. As long as you're in the game, you got to (learn how to) play. If you want something, whatever it's love, wealth or even just survival, you will need to play, because others will not stop playing for you.

True, there are those who do not play the game. But it's better to learn all the same. To paraphrase someone, better to be a warrior in a garden than a pacifist on a battlefield. Than you can seek out your clan from a position of strength. Build relationships with people who don't play (many) games. Mutually build with those who come with good intentions, and cast out those who come with malice and manipulation.

Finally, yes, assuming you are a man, you need to have power over a woman before she will love you and permit you to love her. No, this does not excuse abuse and manipulation by either party, but that's the way it is. The nature of this also creates great danger and disharmony in the dating marketplace for both parties, and this cannot be avoided if you plan to play there either. In my experience, women loved me when I exerted power over them, and hated me when they had power over me. Simple as that. Of course, there is more nuance than that, and mutually supportive relationships are possible, but remember what it comes down to.

Best of luck to you.

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.
Lucio Buffalmano

Hey,
My thoughts on the first question are that emotional love isn't related to power, and that love is more about positive mutual understanding and complementing each other, an enduring emotional bond. Just like how families/friends/parents & their kids can love each other platonically.
But I think social power and social skills are probably important for both attraction and empowerment in general.

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.
Lucio Buffalmano

Power is the degree that you can alter things (including people) and/or remain unaltered when needed. And a major form of power is getting others invested in you.

Yes, 'value' is fundamentally illusory, and one can argue the same is true for anything in the same way Buddhists say our world is ultimately an illusion. But this does not stop the core dynamic any more than a lion will stop eating meat. As long as you're in the game, you got to (learn how to) play. If you want something, whatever it's love, wealth or even just survival, you will need to play, because others will not stop playing for you.

 

 

Hi Kelvo, many valid points, I loved what you said about power also being able to keep unchanged when needed. I just wanted to add that even forĀ  some schools of economic thought, e.g. the Austrians (Menger, Eugen Von Bohm-Bawerk, Mises, Rothbard, etc), value or preferences are always subjective, so different people will value the same good in relation to their own subjective preference scale in order to achieve the maximum net psychic-benefit/income possible. And this value scale may change from moment to moment and also be very highly context-sensitive, in their view, (e.g. the value of a glass of water may be higher in the desert, the value of life may be negative to someone who chooses to comit suicide, beauty may mean nothing to someone who find ugly attractive, etc).

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