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How do you decide whether or not you are overanalyzing?

#1 · January 11, 2020, 3:33 am

Hey so I find this course interesting so far, but I don't think it's healthy to see every social interaction as a power grab, and I do believe that sometimes what appears to be a power move is actually nothing. I used to know some people who were pick up artists and they saw every conversation as a chance to assert dominance, they came off as being really fucking weird and didn't have many friends as a result. Obviously, I don't want to be like that. So how do you know when you are overanalyzing actions? Is it more of a context thing?

#2 · January 11, 2020, 7:39 am

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 11, 2020, 7:39 am
I totally agree with you.
Have you checked already the lessons on "warmth", the first one on social skills, and the "basic strategies for power"?
There it clearly states that, both for yourself and for the people around you, collaboration and win-win are far superior. Especially in the long-term.
It's also not based on morals and values, but on what actually works.
That it also happens to be morally good, it's a great added benefit.
As you go through the course, you will also see more examples of collaboration and collaborative frames working better than pure dominance. And how to go about setting up those collaborative relationships.
Indeed, the course often repeats on the dangers of being "the dickhead", the one who wants to "impose" frames and "dominate" others.
That can also work, in certain conditions, and you will see occasions when you should impose yourself.
But it most often doesn't, and that's why the lesson on "basic strategies" says that, whenever you're in doubt, your baseline behavior should revert to warm and collaborative.
You're right about many PUAs coming across as really weird.
Those are uncalibrated guys who start learning wrong models on having to overpower others to show status.
Sometimes they learn from other guys who teach that stuff but aren't really good with people themselves (relative common in the industry, see Tyler from RSD).
On Over-Analyzing
In the beginning, you should over-analyze.
It's OK to over-analyze to learn.
Then, you start internalizing things, and you can chill back.
As you go through life, most of your relationships will be either neutral, or nice and warm.
And you won't consciously analyze those much, if at all (but you will subconsciously, once you have the conscious knowledge).
But then, eventually, you will come across someone who might be an opponent. Trying to belittle you, undermine you, take advantage of you, social climb on you, or trying to push you down in the social hierarchy.
Thanks to your training on spotting power moves, you will be able to see those competitive dynamics. And you will be able to do something about it.
It's not different than learning how to fight.
You fight in the dojo to learn and be prepared, and to defend. Not because you can fight more outside of it.
And the same with carrying concealed weapons.
You don't carry because you plan on going out and shooting people.
You carry for added safety, against people who might want to harm you.
You train in the shooting range -the equivalent of "over-analyzing"-.
But then, when the gun is in your holster, you don't think about it.
Makes sense?
Yes, It's A Context Thing
When it comes to analyzing power dynamics and people's behavior, it's a context thing, definitely.
And, even more, it depends on the type of relationship and the stage of the relationships.
At a negotiation table with strangers, you want to be warm and friendly. And still, you never want to drop the analyzing mindset, because the incentives to fuck you over are just too big.
But if you've been dealing with them for years, you can also relax a bit.
Meeting strangers, you also want to be higher in analyzing. And it's also OK to make an effort on doing a frst impression that is high in both power and warmth.
Your first dates, be high analzying and testing as well, because that's how you get to know your dates.
But with your friends, with your spouse, with your parents, with your family... ?
With them, drop the overanalyzing of course, and focus on giving instead.
Those relationships are hopefully already set on win-win, so you can chill and enjoy them.
Makes sense?

I totally agree with you.

Have you checked already the lessons on "warmth", the first one on social skills, and the "basic strategies for power"?
There it clearly states that, both for yourself and for the people around you, collaboration and win-win are far superior. Especially in the long-term.

It's also not based on morals and values, but on what actually works.
That it also happens to be morally good, it's a great added benefit.

As you go through the course, you will also see more examples of collaboration and collaborative frames working better than pure dominance. And how to go about setting up those collaborative relationships.

Indeed, the course often repeats on the dangers of being "the dickhead", the one who wants to "impose" frames and "dominate" others.
That can also work, in certain conditions, and you will see occasions when you should impose yourself.

But it most often doesn't, and that's why the lesson on "basic strategies" says that, whenever you're in doubt, your baseline behavior should revert to warm and collaborative.

You're right about many PUAs coming across as really weird.
Those are uncalibrated guys who start learning wrong models on having to overpower others to show status.
Sometimes they learn from other guys who teach that stuff but aren't really good with people themselves (relative common in the industry, see Tyler from RSD).

On Over-Analyzing

In the beginning, you should over-analyze.
It's OK to over-analyze to learn.

Then, you start internalizing things, and you can chill back.

As you go through life, most of your relationships will be either neutral, or nice and warm.
And you won't consciously analyze those much, if at all (but you will subconsciously, once you have the conscious knowledge).

But then, eventually, you will come across someone who might be an opponent. Trying to belittle you, undermine you, take advantage of you, social climb on you, or trying to push you down in the social hierarchy.
Thanks to your training on spotting power moves, you will be able to see those competitive dynamics. And you will be able to do something about it.

It's not different than learning how to fight.
You fight in the dojo to learn and be prepared, and to defend. Not because you can fight more outside of it.

And the same with carrying concealed weapons.
You don't carry because you plan on going out and shooting people.
You carry for added safety, against people who might want to harm you.

You train in the shooting range -the equivalent of "over-analyzing"-.
But then, when the gun is in your holster, you don't think about it.

Makes sense?

Yes, It's A Context Thing

When it comes to analyzing power dynamics and people's behavior, it's a context thing, definitely.

And, even more, it depends on the type of relationship and the stage of the relationships.

At a negotiation table with strangers, you want to be warm and friendly. And still, you never want to drop the analyzing mindset, because the incentives to fuck you over are just too big.
But if you've been dealing with them for years, you can also relax a bit.

Meeting strangers, you also want to be higher in analyzing. And it's also OK to make an effort on doing a frst impression that is high in both power and warmth.
Your first dates, be high analzying and testing as well, because that's how you get to know your dates.

But with your friends, with your spouse, with your parents, with your family... ?
With them, drop the overanalyzing of course, and focus on giving instead.
Those relationships are hopefully already set on win-win, so you can chill and enjoy them.

Makes sense?

B has reacted to this post.

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#3 · January 19, 2020, 8:39 pm

Quote from JP on January 19, 2020, 8:39 pm
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 11, 2020, 7:39 am
I totally agree with you.
Have you checked already the lessons on "warmth", the first one on social skills, and the "basic strategies for power"?
There it clearly states that, both for yourself and for the people around you, collaboration and win-win are far superior. Especially in the long-term.
Actually, I will be going into that part as we speak :)
It's also not based on morals and values, but on what actually works.
That it also happens to be morally good, it's a great added benefit.
Yes, I totally agree. There is an abundance of self-help material of this nature that is politically correct rather than effective. I appreciate the critical thinking that was used in creating your material.
As you go through the course, you will also see more examples of collaboration and collaborative frames working better than pure dominance. And how to go about setting up those collaborative relationships.
Indeed, the course often repeats on the dangers of being "the dickhead", the one who wants to "impose" frames and "dominate" others.
That can also work, in certain conditions, and you will see occasions when you should impose yourself.
But it most often doesn't, and that's why the lesson on "basic strategies" says that, whenever you're in doubt, your baseline behavior should revert to warm and collaborative.
Yeah, the way I see it is kind of a use of force continuum that the police use.
Win-win, win-lose, lose less- lose more, submit

You're right about many PUAs coming across as really weird.
Those are uncalibrated guys who start learning wrong models on having to overpower others to show status.
Sometimes they learn from other guys who teach that stuff but aren't really good with people themselves (relative common in the industry, see Tyler from RSD).
On Over-Analyzing
In the beginning, you should over-analyze.
It's OK to over-analyze to learn.
Then, you start internalizing things, and you can chill back.
As you go through life, most of your relationships will be either neutral, or nice and warm.
And you won't consciously analyze those much, if at all (but you will subconsciously, once you have the conscious knowledge).
But then, eventually, you will come across someone who might be an opponent. Trying to belittle you, undermine you, take advantage of you, social climb on you, or trying to push you down in the social hierarchy.
Thanks to your training on spotting power moves, you will be able to see those competitive dynamics. And you will be able to do something about it.
It's not different than learning how to fight.
You fight in the dojo to learn and be prepared, and to defend. Not because you can fight more outside of it.
And the same with carrying concealed weapons.
You don't carry because you plan on going out and shooting people.
You carry for added safety, against people who might want to harm you.
You train in the shooting range -the equivalent of "over-analyzing"-.
But then, when the gun is in your holster, you don't think about it.
Makes sense?

Yeah it does. The martial arts/boxing analogy is very accurate. Pretty much all fighters in any combat sport are not consciously thinking every move, most of that is trained and executed by the subconscious mind and I think it applies nicely here.

Yes, It's A Context Thing
When it comes to analyzing power dynamics and people's behavior, it's a context thing, definitely.
And, even more, it depends on the type of relationship and the stage of the relationships.
At a negotiation table with strangers, you want to be warm and friendly. And still, you never want to drop the analyzing mindset, because the incentives to fuck you over are just too big.
But if you've been dealing with them for years, you can also relax a bit.
Meeting strangers, you also want to be higher in analyzing. And it's also OK to make an effort on doing a frst impression that is high in both power and warmth.
Your first dates, be high analzying and testing as well, because that's how you get to know your dates.
But with your friends, with your spouse, with your parents, with your family... ?
With them, drop the overanalyzing of course, and focus on giving instead.
Those relationships are hopefully already set on win-win, so you can chill and enjoy them.
Makes sense?
Yeah it does. Thanks for the well-written response. Anyway looks like I have plenty of course material to go through.
I find it interesting though that something as intangible as power can have such massive effects on a person's life. Yet, there is not much good material on this.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 11, 2020, 7:39 am
I totally agree with you.
Have you checked already the lessons on "warmth", the first one on social skills, and the "basic strategies for power"?
There it clearly states that, both for yourself and for the people around you, collaboration and win-win are far superior. Especially in the long-term.

Actually, I will be going into that part as we speak :)

It's also not based on morals and values, but on what actually works.
That it also happens to be morally good, it's a great added benefit.

Yes, I totally agree. There is an abundance of self-help material of this nature that is politically correct rather than effective. I appreciate the critical thinking that was used in creating your material.

As you go through the course, you will also see more examples of collaboration and collaborative frames working better than pure dominance. And how to go about setting up those collaborative relationships.
Indeed, the course often repeats on the dangers of being "the dickhead", the one who wants to "impose" frames and "dominate" others.
That can also work, in certain conditions, and you will see occasions when you should impose yourself.
But it most often doesn't, and that's why the lesson on "basic strategies" says that, whenever you're in doubt, your baseline behavior should revert to warm and collaborative.

Yeah, the way I see it is kind of a use of force continuum that the police use.

Win-win, win-lose, lose less- lose more, submit

You're right about many PUAs coming across as really weird.
Those are uncalibrated guys who start learning wrong models on having to overpower others to show status.
Sometimes they learn from other guys who teach that stuff but aren't really good with people themselves (relative common in the industry, see Tyler from RSD).
On Over-Analyzing
In the beginning, you should over-analyze.
It's OK to over-analyze to learn.
Then, you start internalizing things, and you can chill back.
As you go through life, most of your relationships will be either neutral, or nice and warm.
And you won't consciously analyze those much, if at all (but you will subconsciously, once you have the conscious knowledge).
But then, eventually, you will come across someone who might be an opponent. Trying to belittle you, undermine you, take advantage of you, social climb on you, or trying to push you down in the social hierarchy.
Thanks to your training on spotting power moves, you will be able to see those competitive dynamics. And you will be able to do something about it.
It's not different than learning how to fight.
You fight in the dojo to learn and be prepared, and to defend. Not because you can fight more outside of it.
And the same with carrying concealed weapons.
You don't carry because you plan on going out and shooting people.
You carry for added safety, against people who might want to harm you.
You train in the shooting range -the equivalent of "over-analyzing"-.
But then, when the gun is in your holster, you don't think about it.
Makes sense?

Yeah it does. The martial arts/boxing analogy is very accurate. Pretty much all fighters in any combat sport are not consciously thinking every move, most of that is trained and executed by the subconscious mind and I think it applies nicely here.

Yes, It's A Context Thing
When it comes to analyzing power dynamics and people's behavior, it's a context thing, definitely.
And, even more, it depends on the type of relationship and the stage of the relationships.
At a negotiation table with strangers, you want to be warm and friendly. And still, you never want to drop the analyzing mindset, because the incentives to fuck you over are just too big.
But if you've been dealing with them for years, you can also relax a bit.
Meeting strangers, you also want to be higher in analyzing. And it's also OK to make an effort on doing a frst impression that is high in both power and warmth.
Your first dates, be high analzying and testing as well, because that's how you get to know your dates.
But with your friends, with your spouse, with your parents, with your family... ?
With them, drop the overanalyzing of course, and focus on giving instead.
Those relationships are hopefully already set on win-win, so you can chill and enjoy them.
Makes sense?

Yeah it does. Thanks for the well-written response. Anyway looks like I have plenty of course material to go through.

I find it interesting though that something as intangible as power can have such massive effects on a person's life. Yet, there is not much good material on this.

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.

#4 · January 20, 2020, 4:04 am

Quote from Wil on January 19, 2020, 8:39 pm
There is an abundance of self-help material of this nature that is politically correct rather than effective.

Yes, you said it.

Lots of self-help peddles win-win as the best way to be successful, but they do it blindly.
When they miss the true reason why win-win is often better, they also miss why and when the win-lose can also work, and when it can work at your detriment (which it can).

That way, it becomes politically correct BS, and not a real analysis.
I call it "naive pro-sociality".
Books like "the go-giver", "give and take", but even best-selling classics like "Think and Grow Rich" and "The Greatest Salesman in The World" are exposing people to possible abuse with their naive stance of "give, give, give, and you will be successful".

Yes, give and seek win-win, 100%.
But you must also know when win-win is not possible, when it's a potential risk, or when your partner is not the type of partner with whom to establish a win-win (not everyone is).

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