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How is freedom related to power?

#1 · February 10, 2022, 9:03 am

Quote from leaderoffun on February 10, 2022, 9:03 am
Lucio defines eagles (aka high quality men) as powerful men. But these are perhaps free men too.
Are eagles 'free men'? . Funny how there aren't that many of these men 'in the wild'... it must be really hard to achieve. If the two things (power and freedom) come bundled together, do you lose or gain both at the same time? Are there tradeoffs?
An example of 'free man' (there could be others prototypes!):
Owns a business that provides for his lifestyle. Perhaps more than one for redundancy. Or has 'retired'
Lives wherever he pleases (multiple passports)
If he has a LTR, he feels confident he has the ability to attract a new woman with relatively little effort. That is he doesn't suffer from oneitis
He might be in nonmono relationships, or be dating multiple women at all times. And feels 'ok' doing it (no issues with loneliness, jealousy, etc)
Has a mission
Works on himself. Mental strength, friends, family
Is an enlightened_individualist
These features are as much about power as they are about freedom. power is about reaching one's goals in the TPM dictionary. Powers confers freedom. Or is it bidirectional?
I'm asking because:
Freedom is my number one value (according to my notes; these predate me finding TPM, so it could be I actually meant power)
I'm entering an LTR and I really face decisions that would (voluntarily) limit my freedom, perhaps granting me something that you could call power: the deep emotional connection that allows for these things.
Advantages (power?) that a LTR grants:
Grounding. If you have a secure attachment style, you know what this means: you feel empowered to go 'out in the world' and do amazing things because you have a 'base'. This is perhaps the thing I missed the most when I was dating with no commitments
Inspiration. Both in art and business. I feel propelled to do things, to feel things deeply. Some may call it love, some may call it 'new relationship energy' (NRE). This NRE thing I think comes from the nonmono world, they wanted to have something different from 'love' because they feel they experience it with multiple people which seems to be 'not what love is' at least in mainstream western culture
Appreciation for the arts. I can play piano, go go galleries, rejoice in song lyrics... in a way I couldn't do before
Optimism. I feel that as a couple we could tackle bigger challenges. That we are independent from the world, that no matter how crazy the world gets, you have 'peace' in your immediate social circle, and your partner is at the center of it
Sex is fantastic when there's a deep connection, let's not forget that! This permeates your entire life
Conforming to 'mainstream views' (eg a man should have a stable partner, a woman) helps connecting better with some people who might increase your power (very conservative parts of society that may have more access to money than you do). This is a bit tricky and convoluted to communicate, I know. But imagine the business dinner where you arrive with a trophy wife lol. Or simply the easiness of relating to others who have 'the standard Western lifestyle' (which includes 'a wife')

Lucio defines eagles (aka high quality men) as powerful men. But these are perhaps free men too.

Are eagles 'free men'? . Funny how there aren't that many of these men 'in the wild'... it must be really hard to achieve. If the two things (power and freedom) come bundled together, do you lose or gain both at the same time? Are there tradeoffs?

An example of 'free man' (there could be others prototypes!):

Owns a business that provides for his lifestyle. Perhaps more than one for redundancy. Or has 'retired'
Lives wherever he pleases (multiple passports)
If he has a LTR, he feels confident he has the ability to attract a new woman with relatively little effort. That is he doesn't suffer from oneitis
He might be in nonmono relationships, or be dating multiple women at all times. And feels 'ok' doing it (no issues with loneliness, jealousy, etc)
Has a mission
Works on himself. Mental strength, friends, family
Is an enlightened_individualist

These features are as much about power as they are about freedom. power is about reaching one's goals in the TPM dictionary. Powers confers freedom. Or is it bidirectional?

I'm asking because:

Freedom is my number one value (according to my notes; these predate me finding TPM, so it could be I actually meant power)

I'm entering an LTR and I really face decisions that would (voluntarily) limit my freedom, perhaps granting me something that you could call power: the deep emotional connection that allows for these things.

Advantages (power?) that a LTR grants:

Grounding. If you have a secure attachment style, you know what this means: you feel empowered to go 'out in the world' and do amazing things because you have a 'base'. This is perhaps the thing I missed the most when I was dating with no commitments
Inspiration. Both in art and business. I feel propelled to do things, to feel things deeply. Some may call it love, some may call it 'new relationship energy' (NRE). This NRE thing I think comes from the nonmono world, they wanted to have something different from 'love' because they feel they experience it with multiple people which seems to be 'not what love is' at least in mainstream western culture
Appreciation for the arts. I can play piano, go go galleries, rejoice in song lyrics... in a way I couldn't do before
Optimism. I feel that as a couple we could tackle bigger challenges. That we are independent from the world, that no matter how crazy the world gets, you have 'peace' in your immediate social circle, and your partner is at the center of it
Sex is fantastic when there's a deep connection, let's not forget that! This permeates your entire life
Conforming to 'mainstream views' (eg a man should have a stable partner, a woman) helps connecting better with some people who might increase your power (very conservative parts of society that may have more access to money than you do). This is a bit tricky and convoluted to communicate, I know. But imagine the business dinner where you arrive with a trophy wife lol. Or simply the easiness of relating to others who have 'the standard Western lifestyle' (which includes 'a wife')

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#2 · February 10, 2022, 12:57 pm

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 10, 2022, 12:57 pm
These are very deep questions, LOF.
I think power overlaps with freedom, but is not necessarily freedom.
Freedom is a value, an inspiration, or a goal.
But it is not a value or a goal to everyone.
And not everyone is inspired, motivated, or driven to pursue freedom.
When power is not freedom: Chin Gigante
I remember reading of "Chin Gigante", the head of a mafia family and one of the most powerful bosses.
That guy never left New York, pretended of being demented, and never did anything except for always being in the middle of rackets, murders, and police investigations.
His own game of playing insane limited his life in all kinds of ways.
He had super high power, but very little freedom.
However, that's how he chose to live, he wanted power, not freedom.
He had lots of the former, little of latter.
TPM might be more overly biased towards the overlap of freedom & power
In TPM it probably might feel that freedom and power overlap more because in my system of values freedom ranks quite high.
That approach and worldview are also similar to how M.J. De Marco sees entrepreneurship: as a way to personal freedom, not having a boss, not having a workweek, not having to wake up with an alarm, etc. etc. (see "Millionaire Fastlane" and I just finished now his "Unscripted" which is even better and soon to be reviewed).
And how Nassim Taleb sees financial independence: as interlinked to true mental independence and freedom of speech. He calls it "fuck you money", and righteously says that only financial independence allows you to truly speak your mind.
It's not a coincidence that both authors and books feature very high here: the philosophy resonates with me (plus, of course, they're also great authors publishing great books, of course. The 4h Work Week has the same philosophy but doesn't feature nearly as high).
Freedom and LTR
Now that would deserve another thread.
I don't think that LTR necessarily equals less freedom.
And for sure there are a lot of benefits to it.

These are very deep questions, LOF.

I think power overlaps with freedom, but is not necessarily freedom.

Freedom is a value, an inspiration, or a goal.
But it is not a value or a goal to everyone.

And not everyone is inspired, motivated, or driven to pursue freedom.

When power is not freedom: Chin Gigante

I remember reading of "Chin Gigante", the head of a mafia family and one of the most powerful bosses.

That guy never left New York, pretended of being demented, and never did anything except for always being in the middle of rackets, murders, and police investigations.

His own game of playing insane limited his life in all kinds of ways.

He had super high power, but very little freedom.

However, that's how he chose to live, he wanted power, not freedom.
He had lots of the former, little of latter.

TPM might be more overly biased towards the overlap of freedom & power

In TPM it probably might feel that freedom and power overlap more because in my system of values freedom ranks quite high.

That approach and worldview are also similar to how M.J. De Marco sees entrepreneurship: as a way to personal freedom, not having a boss, not having a workweek, not having to wake up with an alarm, etc. etc. (see "Millionaire Fastlane" and I just finished now his "Unscripted" which is even better and soon to be reviewed).

And how Nassim Taleb sees financial independence: as interlinked to true mental independence and freedom of speech. He calls it "fuck you money", and righteously says that only financial independence allows you to truly speak your mind.

It's not a coincidence that both authors and books feature very high here: the philosophy resonates with me (plus, of course, they're also great authors publishing great books, of course. The 4h Work Week has the same philosophy but doesn't feature nearly as high).

Freedom and LTR

Now that would deserve another thread.

I don't think that LTR necessarily equals less freedom.

And for sure there are a lot of benefits to it.

leaderoffun has reacted to this post.

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#3 · February 10, 2022, 2:06 pm

Awesome answer.

I love De Marco, I have read 'fast lane' and Unscripted, both very good but Unscripted is better. He has a new book: UNSCRIPTED - the Great Rat Race Escape From Wage Slavery to Wealth How to Start a Purpose Driven Business and Win Financial Freedom for a Lifetime. It's on my 'to read list. ' I know and like Taleb too.

Freedom and LTR

^^ would love to read your take on it. I'm still building mine ...

#4 · February 11, 2022, 8:57 pm

I don't have many thoughts set in stone on the topic.

I really love a quote from Casanova's memoirs though:

I loved women even to madness.
But even more, I loved my freedom.

Beautiful.

However, Casanova's freedom was relative, and he was often a slave to both his thirst for more and his feelings / emotions towards individual women.

So, if "freedom" means "always having to find the next partner", then there is more freedom in an LTR.

Many men who have outsized impacts on the world are either single and dating little, or in LTR and mostly monogamous.
That frees their time big time (dating can be time-consuming unless you're super attractive and/or famous).

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