Former Community – We Moved

🆕 Coached community here, for posts & feedback public community here.

ForumPublic Forum: Social LifeHow to deal with a low-value frie …

Please or Register to create posts and topics.

How to deal with a low-value friend/change of social circle

#1 · January 15, 2023, 3:29 am

Quote from Emily on January 15, 2023, 3:29 am
Disclaimer: I don't want to go around calling people "low-value" and I feel a bit judgy as in saying my friend is "low-value", by this I actually mean, low social awareness - I could elaborate more below.
I have been on good terms with this particular friend but some recent encounters had made me feel more annoyed and I started reflecting about whether this friendship is really worth it.
Example 1:
Him (text): Hey, do you want to meet up?
Me: (no response because busy with other things)
Him (several hours later): ???
I feel the question marks are really not getting him anywhere and made me feel slightly annoyed, because it communicates to me that "you owe me a response". I did address this with him saying I don't like it and he apologized. Before I directly confronted him, this similar pattern had happened several times.
Example 2:
I finally arrange some time to meet him.
Me: Why don't we meet at the cafe close to your apartment?
Him: Actually, can I come to your home?
Well, I didn't invite him to come to my home because I didn't feel like hosting anybody. Then we agreed to meet at a cafe closer to his home, and he says he wouldn't be available until later that day because he's seeing another friend, which is OK. I was OK working in that cafe by myself for a while, but he had some delay and made me wait for an additional hour. When he arrives, I was working on some technical issue with a course I was taking by myself. I was distracted and a bit annoyed because of the hurdle.
Me: This is so annoying!
Him: Hey you should do X - like this, you always do X to be consistent. Let's run this, if it runs, you owe me dinner.
It did run, but then I later found out that his suggestion was not the solution, but one of the things I did at the same time.
Example 3:
Casually chat as we talked about our recent updates.
Me: I've been back to exercising and I really enjoyed exercise X!
Him: X? Does that even work?
Some other context:
I know he has some health issues and mental challenges (which he admitted openly) and I have sympathy for his condition. He had some trouble at previous job - the manager was concerned about his performance and how he communicates with the team members (in his own words). He is still unemployed now.
He was looking for an apartment and roommates, to which I offered my previous apartment (because I was moving out) and my other friend as a potential roommate (as he was also looking), he went back and forth with me and rejected both offers. He seemed to have trouble deciding as he lingered on for so long that the potential roommate (my other friend) just gave up.
He invited me to join a music hobby group with him, at which he is one of the officers (more visibility than general members). I did join as a general member and found that the group ultimately does not meet my social or hobby needs - this year it's been a mess for social activities since I was trying to host but all the other people in charge of social activities bailed on me. Then the director asked me to do a different thing (felt like not valuing my time and effort and bossing around), by which point I lose interest and turned it down saying I have other plans. By the end of this music season, he got a reward in front of everyone for having perfect attendance. I have realized that despite the group dynamics, he stuck with it because the group boosts his status somehow (or he finds meaning in it). But then he also admitted to me in private that the group is "cold" etc.
I know I sometimes get sensitive about friends - or anyone close to me really. I am not sure if what I feel is just part of having social relationships, or there is more to it and I really should limit my contact with this person due to what happened. Would appreciate any insights!! Thanks.

Disclaimer: I don't want to go around calling people "low-value" and I feel a bit judgy as in saying my friend is "low-value", by this I actually mean, low social awareness - I could elaborate more below.

I have been on good terms with this particular friend but some recent encounters had made me feel more annoyed and I started reflecting about whether this friendship is really worth it.

Example 1:

Him (text): Hey, do you want to meet up?
Me: (no response because busy with other things)
Him (several hours later): ???

I feel the question marks are really not getting him anywhere and made me feel slightly annoyed, because it communicates to me that "you owe me a response". I did address this with him saying I don't like it and he apologized. Before I directly confronted him, this similar pattern had happened several times.

Example 2:

I finally arrange some time to meet him.

Me: Why don't we meet at the cafe close to your apartment?
Him: Actually, can I come to your home?

Well, I didn't invite him to come to my home because I didn't feel like hosting anybody. Then we agreed to meet at a cafe closer to his home, and he says he wouldn't be available until later that day because he's seeing another friend, which is OK. I was OK working in that cafe by myself for a while, but he had some delay and made me wait for an additional hour. When he arrives, I was working on some technical issue with a course I was taking by myself. I was distracted and a bit annoyed because of the hurdle.

Me: This is so annoying!
Him: Hey you should do X - like this, you always do X to be consistent. Let's run this, if it runs, you owe me dinner.

It did run, but then I later found out that his suggestion was not the solution, but one of the things I did at the same time.

Example 3:

Casually chat as we talked about our recent updates.

Me: I've been back to exercising and I really enjoyed exercise X!
Him: X? Does that even work?

Some other context:

I know he has some health issues and mental challenges (which he admitted openly) and I have sympathy for his condition. He had some trouble at previous job - the manager was concerned about his performance and how he communicates with the team members (in his own words). He is still unemployed now.

He was looking for an apartment and roommates, to which I offered my previous apartment (because I was moving out) and my other friend as a potential roommate (as he was also looking), he went back and forth with me and rejected both offers. He seemed to have trouble deciding as he lingered on for so long that the potential roommate (my other friend) just gave up.

He invited me to join a music hobby group with him, at which he is one of the officers (more visibility than general members). I did join as a general member and found that the group ultimately does not meet my social or hobby needs - this year it's been a mess for social activities since I was trying to host but all the other people in charge of social activities bailed on me. Then the director asked me to do a different thing (felt like not valuing my time and effort and bossing around), by which point I lose interest and turned it down saying I have other plans. By the end of this music season, he got a reward in front of everyone for having perfect attendance. I have realized that despite the group dynamics, he stuck with it because the group boosts his status somehow (or he finds meaning in it). But then he also admitted to me in private that the group is "cold" etc.

I know I sometimes get sensitive about friends - or anyone close to me really. I am not sure if what I feel is just part of having social relationships, or there is more to it and I really should limit my contact with this person due to what happened. Would appreciate any insights!! Thanks.

Kavalier and B have reacted to this post.

#2 · January 15, 2023, 4:31 am

Hello, Emily. Tricky thing indeed.

I do think that limiting contact with this person is justified. While advising for keeping one's distance from people with health and mental issues is not PC, I ultimately came to think that it's usually best for our own mental and social health.

If some friends are very good friends and are very close to me, then I'll help them deal with their problems and that'll involve loads of listening and other types of support. That's in the package or, as you say it, part of having social relationships. Great bonds come with great responsibilities.

But I'd be wary of bringing new people like this in my life, or of bringing closer acquaintances that show these same problems. It's just very taxing, and we have our own problems to deal with.

You friend power moves a lot and this is something that will be hard to fix because of his mental health. However:

I did address this with him saying I don't like it and he apologized

He apologized and apologizing is a green flag. I think that if you keep being assertive with him, it'll nudge him in a better direction, eventually leading him to drop the power moves.

I believe that's the best thing you can do for him, actually. Whenever you get assertive with him, he gets an example of how to communicate with others, which is something his boss addressed before but couldn't or wouldn't point out exactly.

Especially if these annoying power moves are recent and you have until then had a good relationship with him, then I'd say that it's a bit soon to reconsider your friendship in the light of worth/not worth it. Perhaps it's just a bad phase that will pass soon enough. But, in your place, limiting my contact within a healthy dosis and and keeping being assertive with him would be my go-to strategy.

Lucio Buffalmano, Ali Scarlett and 2 other users have reacted to this post.

#3 · January 15, 2023, 4:18 pm

Quote from Emily on January 15, 2023, 4:18 pm
Quote from Kavalier on January 15, 2023, 4:31 am
Hello, Emily. Tricky thing indeed.
I do think that limiting contact with this person is justified. While advising for keeping one's distance from people with health and mental issues is not PC, I ultimately came to think that it's usually best for our own mental and social health.
If some friends are very good friends and are very close to me, then I'll help them deal with their problems and that'll involve loads of listening and other types of support. That's in the package or, as you say it, part of having social relationships. Great bonds come with great responsibilities.
But I'd be wary of bringing new people like this in my life, or of bringing closer acquaintances that show these same problems. It's just very taxing, and we have our own problems to deal with.
You friend power moves a lot and this is something that will be hard to fix because of his mental health. However:
I did address this with him saying I don't like it and he apologized
He apologized and apologizing is a green flag. I think that if you keep being assertive with him, it'll nudge him in a better direction, eventually leading him to drop the power moves.
I believe that's the best thing you can do for him, actually. Whenever you get assertive with him, he gets an example of how to communicate with others, which is something his boss addressed before but couldn't or wouldn't point out exactly.
Especially if these annoying power moves are recent and you have until then had a good relationship with him, then I'd say that it's a bit soon to reconsider your friendship in the light of worth/not worth it. Perhaps it's just a bad phase that will pass soon enough. But, in your place, limiting my contact within a healthy dosis and and keeping being assertive with him would be my go-to strategy.
Appreciate your insights and suggestions, Kavalier. I feel it's very compassionate and also balanced. Yes I think that being assertive yet supportive ("nudging") is the right strategy but I have been reserved about this since it could be taxing as you said, also I'm a bit confrontation-avoidant. I do think he has many good qualities: for example, he's good at finding natural spots to take a stroll at. I think it would be good for me to revisit something like this to have better memories, and consciously try to be transparent about my discomfort in the communication going forward.

Quote from Kavalier on January 15, 2023, 4:31 am
Hello, Emily. Tricky thing indeed.
I do think that limiting contact with this person is justified. While advising for keeping one's distance from people with health and mental issues is not PC, I ultimately came to think that it's usually best for our own mental and social health.
If some friends are very good friends and are very close to me, then I'll help them deal with their problems and that'll involve loads of listening and other types of support. That's in the package or, as you say it, part of having social relationships. Great bonds come with great responsibilities.
But I'd be wary of bringing new people like this in my life, or of bringing closer acquaintances that show these same problems. It's just very taxing, and we have our own problems to deal with.
You friend power moves a lot and this is something that will be hard to fix because of his mental health. However:
I did address this with him saying I don't like it and he apologized
He apologized and apologizing is a green flag. I think that if you keep being assertive with him, it'll nudge him in a better direction, eventually leading him to drop the power moves.
I believe that's the best thing you can do for him, actually. Whenever you get assertive with him, he gets an example of how to communicate with others, which is something his boss addressed before but couldn't or wouldn't point out exactly.
Especially if these annoying power moves are recent and you have until then had a good relationship with him, then I'd say that it's a bit soon to reconsider your friendship in the light of worth/not worth it. Perhaps it's just a bad phase that will pass soon enough. But, in your place, limiting my contact within a healthy dosis and and keeping being assertive with him would be my go-to strategy.

Appreciate your insights and suggestions, Kavalier. I feel it's very compassionate and also balanced. Yes I think that being assertive yet supportive ("nudging") is the right strategy but I have been reserved about this since it could be taxing as you said, also I'm a bit confrontation-avoidant. I do think he has many good qualities: for example, he's good at finding natural spots to take a stroll at. I think it would be good for me to revisit something like this to have better memories, and consciously try to be transparent about my discomfort in the communication going forward.

Lucio Buffalmano, Ali Scarlett and Kavalier have reacted to this post.

#4 · January 15, 2023, 10:10 pm

It's a pleasure, Emily. I think your current approach is a good one, so, in the end, my post is more to encourage you to continue doing it. Good luck with this one!

Lucio Buffalmano, Ali Scarlett and Emily have reacted to this post.

#5 · January 16, 2023, 4:37 am

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 16, 2023, 4:37 am
Hello Emily,
I also share your same feelings about using "low-value" or "low-quality" as labels: I'm also reticent with them, and it feels a bit like a covert brag and one-up.
But still, the labels do make sense and are fair.
When it comes to this person, I second Kavalier that he plays a lot of power moves.
And he seems to be a bit inconsiderate as well.
This one was also not good:
Him: Hey you should do X - like this, you always do X to be consistent. Let's run this, if it runs, you owe me dinner.
I'd have said something like:
Dinner is not a problem, but how about just being happy for helping a friend?
Or turning it into a joke:
Thank you so much for your no-strings-attached love and support
It seems like he's not the best but not TOO bad.
So, you can leave this door open and meet up sometimes, and even try to be straight and point out his not so cool behavior and see how he reacts -and learn in the meanwhile how to be both assertive and tactful at the same time-.
And this is an even deeper question:
Quote from Emily on January 15, 2023, 3:29 am
I know I sometimes get sensitive about friends - or anyone close to me really. I am not sure if what I feel is just part of having social relationships, or there is more to it and I really should limit my contact with this person due to what happened. Would appreciate any insights!! Thanks.
A little bit of misunderstandings and small things are just part of socialization, yes.
So a super-nazi attitude would most certainly be unhelpful.
HOWEVER,
To me, this didn't seem a case of you being too sensitive.
With good people the "bad feelings" are small, far in between, and quickly resolved if you bring them up -plus, you'll see a different attitude with win-win and considerate people: they'll attentively listen to you and be ready to own and apologize because they never wanted to pull power moves or negatively affect you-.
When it's too many, too often, and without a willingness to own, apologize, and make things better, that's a major red flag.

Hello Emily,

I also share your same feelings about using "low-value" or "low-quality" as labels: I'm also reticent with them, and it feels a bit like a covert brag and one-up.
But still, the labels do make sense and are fair.

When it comes to this person, I second Kavalier that he plays a lot of power moves.

And he seems to be a bit inconsiderate as well.

This one was also not good:

Him: Hey you should do X - like this, you always do X to be consistent. Let's run this, if it runs, you owe me dinner.

I'd have said something like:

Dinner is not a problem, but how about just being happy for helping a friend?

Or turning it into a joke:

Thank you so much for your no-strings-attached love and support

It seems like he's not the best but not TOO bad.

So, you can leave this door open and meet up sometimes, and even try to be straight and point out his not so cool behavior and see how he reacts -and learn in the meanwhile how to be both assertive and tactful at the same time-.

And this is an even deeper question:

Quote from Emily on January 15, 2023, 3:29 am
I know I sometimes get sensitive about friends - or anyone close to me really. I am not sure if what I feel is just part of having social relationships, or there is more to it and I really should limit my contact with this person due to what happened. Would appreciate any insights!! Thanks.

A little bit of misunderstandings and small things are just part of socialization, yes.

So a super-nazi attitude would most certainly be unhelpful.

HOWEVER,

To me, this didn't seem a case of you being too sensitive.

With good people the "bad feelings" are small, far in between, and quickly resolved if you bring them up -plus, you'll see a different attitude with win-win and considerate people: they'll attentively listen to you and be ready to own and apologize because they never wanted to pull power moves or negatively affect you-.

When it's too many, too often, and without a willingness to own, apologize, and make things better, that's a major red flag.

Ali Scarlett, Kavalier and 2 other users have reacted to this post.

Community, new content and Confidence University now available here.

#6 · January 18, 2023, 4:54 am

Quote from Emily on January 18, 2023, 4:54 am
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 16, 2023, 4:37 am
Hello Emily,
I also share your same feelings about using "low-value" or "low-quality" as labels: I'm also reticent with them, and it feels a bit like a covert brag and one-up.
But still, the labels do make sense and are fair.
When it comes to this person, I second Kavalier that he plays a lot of power moves.
And he seems to be a bit inconsiderate as well.
This one was also not good:
Him: Hey you should do X - like this, you always do X to be consistent. Let's run this, if it runs, you owe me dinner.
I'd have said something like:
Dinner is not a problem, but how about just being happy for helping a friend?
Or turning it into a joke:
Thank you so much for your no-strings-attached love and support
It seems like he's not the best but not TOO bad.
So, you can leave this door open and meet up sometimes, and even try to be straight and point out his not so cool behavior and see how he reacts -and learn in the meanwhile how to be both assertive and tactful at the same time-.
And this is an even deeper question:
Quote from Emily on January 15, 2023, 3:29 am
I know I sometimes get sensitive about friends - or anyone close to me really. I am not sure if what I feel is just part of having social relationships, or there is more to it and I really should limit my contact with this person due to what happened. Would appreciate any insights!! Thanks.
A little bit of misunderstandings and small things are just part of socialization, yes.
So a super-nazi attitude would most certainly be unhelpful.
HOWEVER,
To me, this didn't seem a case of you being too sensitive.
With good people the "bad feelings" are small, far in between, and quickly resolved if you bring them up -plus, you'll see a different attitude with win-win and considerate people: they'll attentively listen to you and be ready to own and apologize because they never wanted to pull power moves or negatively affect you-.
When it's too many, too often, and without a willingness to own, apologize, and make things better, that's a major red flag.
Thanks, Lucio. I appreciate the "too many too often" warning. I do have a few people around me who are just as supportive and good listeners as you said, and I never felt the interactions with them taxing. This comes back to my bigger reflection of changing the social circle gradually.
For this particular friend especially about the "owe me dinner" I don't think he was actually expecting that. From what I know about him, it's more of a sarcastic comment. If I said "how about no-strings-attached support" he might actually take it and respect that. But yeah, this kind of jokingly (or even microaggresive/manipulative) one -upping and correcting isn't what I do naturally and would overwhelm me after a while.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 16, 2023, 4:37 am
Hello Emily,
I also share your same feelings about using "low-value" or "low-quality" as labels: I'm also reticent with them, and it feels a bit like a covert brag and one-up.
But still, the labels do make sense and are fair.
When it comes to this person, I second Kavalier that he plays a lot of power moves.
And he seems to be a bit inconsiderate as well.
This one was also not good:
Him: Hey you should do X - like this, you always do X to be consistent. Let's run this, if it runs, you owe me dinner.
I'd have said something like:
Dinner is not a problem, but how about just being happy for helping a friend?
Or turning it into a joke:
Thank you so much for your no-strings-attached love and support
It seems like he's not the best but not TOO bad.
So, you can leave this door open and meet up sometimes, and even try to be straight and point out his not so cool behavior and see how he reacts -and learn in the meanwhile how to be both assertive and tactful at the same time-.
And this is an even deeper question:
Quote from Emily on January 15, 2023, 3:29 am
I know I sometimes get sensitive about friends - or anyone close to me really. I am not sure if what I feel is just part of having social relationships, or there is more to it and I really should limit my contact with this person due to what happened. Would appreciate any insights!! Thanks.
A little bit of misunderstandings and small things are just part of socialization, yes.
So a super-nazi attitude would most certainly be unhelpful.
HOWEVER,
To me, this didn't seem a case of you being too sensitive.
With good people the "bad feelings" are small, far in between, and quickly resolved if you bring them up -plus, you'll see a different attitude with win-win and considerate people: they'll attentively listen to you and be ready to own and apologize because they never wanted to pull power moves or negatively affect you-.
When it's too many, too often, and without a willingness to own, apologize, and make things better, that's a major red flag.

Thanks, Lucio. I appreciate the "too many too often" warning. I do have a few people around me who are just as supportive and good listeners as you said, and I never felt the interactions with them taxing. This comes back to my bigger reflection of changing the social circle gradually.

For this particular friend especially about the "owe me dinner" I don't think he was actually expecting that. From what I know about him, it's more of a sarcastic comment. If I said "how about no-strings-attached support" he might actually take it and respect that. But yeah, this kind of jokingly (or even microaggresive/manipulative) one -upping and correcting isn't what I do naturally and would overwhelm me after a while.

Lucio Buffalmano and Kavalier have reacted to this post.

#7 · January 20, 2023, 3:38 am

Quote from Emily on January 18, 2023, 4:54 am
Thanks, Lucio. I appreciate the "too many too often" warning. I do have a few people around me who are just as supportive and good listeners as you said, and I never felt the interactions with them taxing. This comes back to my bigger reflection of changing the social circle gradually.
For this particular friend especially about the "owe me dinner" I don't think he was actually expecting that. From what I know about him, it's more of a sarcastic comment. If I said "how about no-strings-attached support" he might actually take it and respect that. But yeah, this kind of jokingly (or even microaggresive/manipulative) one -upping and correcting isn't what I do naturally and would overwhelm me after a while.

Makes sense.

As usual, posts here are like external opinions that can provide new insights or ideas, but you know best what applies and what doesn't to your specific situation.

And yes, I also like the approach of "gradual change".

Kavalier has reacted to this post.

Community, new content and Confidence University now available here.