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How to deal with disrespectfully noisy neighbors

#1 · July 27, 2020, 8:49 pm

Quote from Anon on July 27, 2020, 8:49 pm
Hi Lucio,

this seems to be a very prevalent problem, which isn't surprising considering the number of people nowadays inhabiting a relatively small amount of space while owning devices capable of enormous amounts of noise.

I had my experiences with quite some neighbors over the years and am still not sure how to approach this effectively.

When my current apartment neighbors blasted very loud 'music' for the first time a few days after they moved in, I waited half a minute to make sure it wasn't some configuration mistake, and after that, immediatly went to their door and rang.

They weren't opening the door but I obviously knew they were there (the doorbells are pretty loud so they likely did hear it still and knew that I know that).
I instictivly kept ringing, and after something like 6 or 7 rings the door finally opened.

A very stern appearing woman looked at me (I later learned she didn't even reside there, they really wanted to avoid the confrontation) and I explained as nicely as I could, that the walls are very thin here (to save their face somewhat, and they really are).
For context, this isn't a cultural nogo. I know nobody particularly likes even the nicest confrontational conversations, but they aren't inappropriate here - as far as I'm aware :D

I think it was good that I immediatly enforced my boundaries and didn't back off (small showdown) and put them also in an uncomfortable position.
They absolutely don't like direct confrontation, so much so that even today they (at least once) openly close the door again, if we happen to leave the apartment at the same time. They show me they don't like me*, but in a pretty weak way.
* Though they really have no reason to, I'm always friendly and otherwise very silent indoors, what more do you want from a neighbor.

It really worked - for while.
But they tend to rebel against these boundaries.
Not very often, but from time to time they blast their garbage again in a clearly inappropriate volume and are also completely carelessly, literally screaming - for no actual reason. Of course singing can be quite loud too, so they do -or try- that as obnoxiously noisy as possible as well.
Most of it is not too often so far, but I lost nearly all respect for them.

Since I myself absolutely don't want to constantly show up on their doorsteps, they practically undermined me every time they disrespect my peace this blatant.
Now I need to escalate too, which seems risky. I could show up on their doorsteps again, but this feels wrong, apart from me not wanting to - because of how much they seem to dispise that. It would probably be too much of an escalation from their perspective, but I'm not sure.

So my (less than ideal) plan against all their very avoidable and respectless noise so far would be to escalate, but hidden.
Stuff constantly some ads in their postbox, remove their postbox nametag (first throwing it on the ground, a later escalation would be completely removing it), ringing at night, etc. - relativly harmless, just to inform them they pissed someone off, and than go from there escalating, until they get it.

But since I confronted them some time ago about the noise already, they will likely suppose it's me - but can't be completely sure.
I think the fuzziness is good, because if they suppose it's me they know I can do both - open and hidden, and it still increases doubt, so they might really think they have pissed off someone else, which isn't even unlikely because of their behaviour.

But this is still quite risky, as it could start a war. And I have no idea how they'll react, I really can't grasp them.
I think I'm less vulnerable then them, though still harmable, and it's a clear lose-lose situation in the making.
They might have started it, and work hard to maintain it, but there has to be something better.

Though I'm not able to build any connection with them (and no collaborative frame whatsoever), and they don't appear at all to want that, and we really have not much in common other then the address.

I'm very curious about your opinion on this (if you like, specifically and generally), as this is a common problem one will likely have to face at sometime, as one can't control what type of people are going to move in next door.

I'm aware that it would have been a lot easier if we had a good relationship (now it's cold, professional friendliness if we see each other), but all this happened quite some time ago and likely can't be changed easily. And there are also people who just dislike you for your face, so this might be akin to such a situation.

Hi Lucio,

this seems to be a very prevalent problem, which isn't surprising considering the number of people nowadays inhabiting a relatively small amount of space while owning devices capable of enormous amounts of noise.

I had my experiences with quite some neighbors over the years and am still not sure how to approach this effectively.

When my current apartment neighbors blasted very loud 'music' for the first time a few days after they moved in, I waited half a minute to make sure it wasn't some configuration mistake, and after that, immediatly went to their door and rang.

They weren't opening the door but I obviously knew they were there (the doorbells are pretty loud so they likely did hear it still and knew that I know that).

I instictivly kept ringing, and after something like 6 or 7 rings the door finally opened.

A very stern appearing woman looked at me (I later learned she didn't even reside there, they really wanted to avoid the confrontation) and I explained as nicely as I could, that the walls are very thin here (to save their face somewhat, and they really are).

For context, this isn't a cultural nogo. I know nobody particularly likes even the nicest confrontational conversations, but they aren't inappropriate here - as far as I'm aware :D

I think it was good that I immediatly enforced my boundaries and didn't back off (small showdown) and put them also in an uncomfortable position.

They absolutely don't like direct confrontation, so much so that even today they (at least once) openly close the door again, if we happen to leave the apartment at the same time. They show me they don't like me*, but in a pretty weak way.

* Though they really have no reason to, I'm always friendly and otherwise very silent indoors, what more do you want from a neighbor.

It really worked - for while.

But they tend to rebel against these boundaries.

Not very often, but from time to time they blast their garbage again in a clearly inappropriate volume and are also completely carelessly, literally screaming - for no actual reason. Of course singing can be quite loud too, so they do -or try- that as obnoxiously noisy as possible as well.

Most of it is not too often so far, but I lost nearly all respect for them.

Since I myself absolutely don't want to constantly show up on their doorsteps, they practically undermined me every time they disrespect my peace this blatant.

Now I need to escalate too, which seems risky. I could show up on their doorsteps again, but this feels wrong, apart from me not wanting to - because of how much they seem to dispise that. It would probably be too much of an escalation from their perspective, but I'm not sure.

So my (less than ideal) plan against all their very avoidable and respectless noise so far would be to escalate, but hidden.

Stuff constantly some ads in their postbox, remove their postbox nametag (first throwing it on the ground, a later escalation would be completely removing it), ringing at night, etc. - relativly harmless, just to inform them they pissed someone off, and than go from there escalating, until they get it.

But since I confronted them some time ago about the noise already, they will likely suppose it's me - but can't be completely sure.

I think the fuzziness is good, because if they suppose it's me they know I can do both - open and hidden, and it still increases doubt, so they might really think they have pissed off someone else, which isn't even unlikely because of their behaviour.

But this is still quite risky, as it could start a war. And I have no idea how they'll react, I really can't grasp them.

I think I'm less vulnerable then them, though still harmable, and it's a clear lose-lose situation in the making.

They might have started it, and work hard to maintain it, but there has to be something better.

Though I'm not able to build any connection with them (and no collaborative frame whatsoever), and they don't appear at all to want that, and we really have not much in common other then the address.

I'm very curious about your opinion on this (if you like, specifically and generally), as this is a common problem one will likely have to face at sometime, as one can't control what type of people are going to move in next door.

I'm aware that it would have been a lot easier if we had a good relationship (now it's cold, professional friendliness if we see each other), but all this happened quite some time ago and likely can't be changed easily. And there are also people who just dislike you for your face, so this might be akin to such a situation.

#2 · July 28, 2020, 9:42 am

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on July 28, 2020, 9:42 am
Hi Anon,
I like your first approach to knock on the door as soon as it happened.
Direct, honest, and doesn't allow bad precedents to pile up.
I wouldn't recommend the "covert warfare" strategy here.
And not necessarily because it's always wrong. Sometimes some people do shitty things that deserve some shit back, and if covert warfare is the only way to go, it can be totally fair to go for it -and even value-adding, since it's good to hit back on assholes-.
But I don't see it as the best strategy right now, for your situation.
Among the cons:
You might be found out: it's low to very low chances, but still not zero
They might suspect you: as you mentioned, they might suspect you, and then going back to more direct and assertive methods will work less. Furthermore, they might start doing the same on you, which only escalates the covert war in a vicious circle of lose-lose
It poisons the environment: other neighbors will see shenanigans going on, or your neighbors might start asking around. Suspicion will increase about everyone, and generally people will start thinking that "this is not a good condo to be in", which generally makes the whole environment unhealthier, and also damages you
It is unlikely to solve the problem: covert warfare is unlikely to solve problems
It can destabilize an "OK" situation: consider that your situation is not too bad right now. If they only get noisy rarely, the situation might be "acceptable", and going covert warfare over an acceptable situation might just not be worth it
Gets you in a passive-aggressive, powerless mindset: behavior and mindsets are connected. Engaging in covert warfare can make get you into a more passive-aggressive frame of mind instead of an assertive one that would better serve you in other areas of life
A few more options to deal with this:
Knocking on the wall: Knock on the wall when they get too loud again as to give them a reminder. This worked the last time noise from a neighbor was bothering me
Ring at their door again when they get noisy: even if they don't reply, it's good they know you don't accept fuckery around and are willing to enforce boundaries. It's always better if others are passive-aggressive than you being passive-aggressive. Passive-aggressive is low-power
Go the winning them over route: you can be extra kind when you see them, or knock at their door when you have extra food you're not going to finish (or can fabricate an extra food situation, for example you buy a piece of cake, say that it was a gift but you're not eating chocolate, and say you wanted to give it to them). This is good because that way they don't associate you as the "grouchy neighbor who is curtailing their fun", but more like the "friendly neighbor who deserves respect". And usually "pull" is more effective than "push"
These strategies are not mutually exclusive.
Winning them over is compatible with asking to tone it down whenever they step the line again.
And the next time you see them, you might even make a joke about the situation, too ("surfacing technique").
For example: "I know I'm annoying for being such a nazi about quietness. Maybe one day we'll move and you guys can do whatever you like".

Hi Anon,

I like your first approach to knock on the door as soon as it happened.
Direct, honest, and doesn't allow bad precedents to pile up.

I wouldn't recommend the "covert warfare" strategy here.
And not necessarily because it's always wrong. Sometimes some people do shitty things that deserve some shit back, and if covert warfare is the only way to go, it can be totally fair to go for it -and even value-adding, since it's good to hit back on assholes-.

But I don't see it as the best strategy right now, for your situation.

Among the cons:

You might be found out: it's low to very low chances, but still not zero
They might suspect you: as you mentioned, they might suspect you, and then going back to more direct and assertive methods will work less. Furthermore, they might start doing the same on you, which only escalates the covert war in a vicious circle of lose-lose
It poisons the environment: other neighbors will see shenanigans going on, or your neighbors might start asking around. Suspicion will increase about everyone, and generally people will start thinking that "this is not a good condo to be in", which generally makes the whole environment unhealthier, and also damages you
It is unlikely to solve the problem: covert warfare is unlikely to solve problems
It can destabilize an "OK" situation: consider that your situation is not too bad right now. If they only get noisy rarely, the situation might be "acceptable", and going covert warfare over an acceptable situation might just not be worth it
Gets you in a passive-aggressive, powerless mindset: behavior and mindsets are connected. Engaging in covert warfare can make get you into a more passive-aggressive frame of mind instead of an assertive one that would better serve you in other areas of life

A few more options to deal with this:

Knocking on the wall: Knock on the wall when they get too loud again as to give them a reminder. This worked the last time noise from a neighbor was bothering me
Ring at their door again when they get noisy: even if they don't reply, it's good they know you don't accept fuckery around and are willing to enforce boundaries. It's always better if others are passive-aggressive than you being passive-aggressive. Passive-aggressive is low-power
Go the winning them over route: you can be extra kind when you see them, or knock at their door when you have extra food you're not going to finish (or can fabricate an extra food situation, for example you buy a piece of cake, say that it was a gift but you're not eating chocolate, and say you wanted to give it to them). This is good because that way they don't associate you as the "grouchy neighbor who is curtailing their fun", but more like the "friendly neighbor who deserves respect". And usually "pull" is more effective than "push"

These strategies are not mutually exclusive.
Winning them over is compatible with asking to tone it down whenever they step the line again.
And the next time you see them, you might even make a joke about the situation, too ("surfacing technique").
For example: "I know I'm annoying for being such a nazi about quietness. Maybe one day we'll move and you guys can do whatever you like".

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#3 · July 28, 2020, 10:45 am

This was all very helpful.

And somehow I totally forgot about the knocking on the wall option.

It can be difficult sometimes to apply all the great information about social- and power-dynamics from here in a specific situation in real life, probably because it built for months and the interpretations were already set in ones' mind.

Thank you for your eye-opening advice.

PS: I posted in the wrong part of the forum, sorry about that.

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