Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on August 7, 2021, 4:34 pm

What do you think are better answers than ignoring, Growfast?

Quote from Growfast on August 8, 2021, 7:40 am

This will be a nice discussion.

These are my thoughts.

Guy - OMG, he is so romantic and does so many things for you. For most couple it would be considered as really needy but it's great to see how you take care of her so much.

Option 1 : going meta (however if he denies it and says that he doesn't know what I am talking about then I would have played by his frame of being needy since now it really seems I think of other guys as a threat and that ends up proving that I really don't want to lose her) 

Option 2 : I understand if you have been in relationships where you and the girl haven't opened up to each other much because of lack of trust

Guy(another time) - God's he is so jealous, he really doesn't want to lose you. (when I came back from socialising with others and joined my girlfriend and him having a conversation).

 

My thoughtshere are going meta though as I said earlier there is a risk.

 

What are your thoughts, Lucio?

 

 

 

 

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on August 8, 2021, 9:02 am

There's a good article on this if you search for cockblock at the top right-hand corner (the magnifying glass).

I am on the same page that going meta may not be the best option.
It's high risk and expands quite a bit of effort.

Quote from Growfast on August 8, 2021, 11:13 am

The cockblock article has nice tactics to deal with such guys.

 

• However if it's a guy you meet when you are in a social circle(he either introduced himself or is a regular member) then I can't actually move the whole group excluding him or seperate me and my girl away from our group (doing this has a risk of coming across that I find him a threat)
• If it happens at a time where you aren't in a very deep conversation with the girl yet(just met the girl).Then you aren't at a rapport level to move away with the girl and also there is always a chance that the girl will believe you are being jealous(some young girls seem very Influenceable and are not yet at a point to understand the power dynamics happening where the other guy is trying to paint me as jealous to pickup the girl himself). 

 

From the body language, it's obvious the two girls are about to move.

But J jumps in with high energy and rekindles the conversation with one of them.
At this time, I'm thinking "nice move, he realized they were about to leave, and intervened".

But here where it becomes a nasty power move.
J immediately says he needs to go and that "he will leave the two of them with me".
Then he bolts.

See the power move here?

He makes it seem like he introduced two girls to me, and then left me alone with the two of them. But in truth, he left me alone with two girls who are just about to eject.
He comes across as looking socially good and powerful, and like he was helping me out. In truth, he is inflating his social status and inflating the credit that, theoretically, I'd owe him.

 

Saw this on one of Lucio's earlier posts what are your ideas on how you have responded if you were to save power (I understand Lucio had to not hit back in this case because of the group dynamic at the time, seems like the guy was a proper leech from what I read in the post however let's assume he is just another guy at the party) 

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on August 9, 2021, 6:00 am

To begin with, I'd say:

Give Him the Right Category: He’s Not Your Friend

It's better to put him in an appropriate category.

Frenemy, maybe.

Or if you try to win him back over and doesn't work, potentially even "enemy".

Or an "has-been" in your life, if you can cut him off.

It's a seemingly small detail, but it's foundational to recognize and treat different those who add value to your life, and those who take.
This guy, with this attitude, it's unlikely he can be a giver -and if he is, he might be turn taker in the near future-.

Going Meta: Risks of Relationship Power Dynamics

The risk of these dynamics is that if you overreact, or if you handle it poorly, it looks like your GF is higher value than you are.

It's the same for people who compliment you for your GF: they don't realize they are harming you.

And it's the same with jealous folks when you date girls who, in terms of looks, look better. Their nasty jealous power moves can end up affecting the balance of power -and quality- of your relationship unless you take appropriate action.

How to Handle It: 1 Idea

Off the top of my mind, potentially more to come:

Him: OMG, he is so romantic and does so many things for you. For most couple, it would be considered as really needy but it's great to see how you take care of her so much.
You: Actually, that's not true at all (start out with a flat-out denial, put your foot down, grab attention). We both do a lot for each other, and that's why I like her (What a power move. Turns a risk into an opportunity. It re-establishes a healthy win-win instead of the win-lose he's pushing. And it self-frames you as high-quality, filtering for value-adding people in your life. Important for your own relationship dynamics.

Worry about what matters most first:

1. Your relationship
2. The people you care about

Only later worry about the asshole.
This is mental empowerment with emotional detachment: you don't let it get under your skin, but take action based on priority.

Then if you want to go further:

You: I'm really not sure what you mean man (starts the surfacing technique), I'm only interested in relationships where both contribute to each other (self-frames you as high-quality, with high-standards), including friendships actually (starts hinting he's not a friend or someone to keep around). It sounds like you're suggesting that caring for each other is bad or something. What do you mean (this is manipulative reframe. But he had it coming. He didn't say that, but it's close enough that it works. So with this you force him to defend that "he didn't mean that, he meant.... ")

First he will need to defend, saying that "give-give" relationships are good.
If he doesn't, he loses right there and then. And it's easy for you to then frame him as having a poor mindset or, if you want to really power move on him, you might drop that he's got an "abuser's mindset" (that will work well actually to counterbalance his initial attack).

When he re-phrases, he's also following your lead and conceding. And he also loses power as he needs to spend effort and come down from his judgmental pulpit.

If he tries again later to frame you again as "needy", that's still good: you surfaced and thread-expanded on his spite.
He now looks nasty.
Your GF will dislike him as well because it's against her interests that this asshole tries to set a frame where you're "giving too much".
If you then escalate or go meta, it looks justified.

And if you turn cold and distant from him over time, it also looks justified: he was being nasty to you, and you don't deal much with assholes.

Is There Any Truth In His Attack?

Ask yourself that.

Might not be true, but it's worth considering.

Your Power Dynamics Gym

This is a mental and power-dynamics war.

This guy looks out to disempower you, and also like he's at least on the intermediate level.

Great training for you!

I wished I had a place this when in the past I was dealing with similar frenemies and value-takers.

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on August 9, 2021, 11:27 am

Spending More Time with the Woman Alone

I'm not sure of what's the social situation exactly.
You mention that this is a social circle.
So you probably know the frenemy and the girl quite well.

Maybe spending less time with the girl in the social circle and spending more time with the girl alone would be a good idea.

Maybe this is an office or school environment where you are spending most of your time.
Hence, there's an added challenge of dealing with the frenemy every day.

Are You High-Status in Another Social Circle?

If you have another social circle where you are a leader or more popular, maybe you could invite the woman to join the meet-up.

Quote from Growfast on August 11, 2021, 7:56 am

Thanks and much appreciated for sharing your views. We will discuss about the impacts soon after me or anyone in the forum runs into a similar situation.

I will thank and appreciate anyone who shares their thoughts to make this discussion even more fruitful.