Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on December 13, 2022, 5:02 am

Think of it like this:

Your sexual market value is your general value (PU) + dating skills (SU)

You can change "dating skills" for "game", "mating intelligence", or whatever you prefer, but the concept is the same: it's a subset / niche of your general value.

That also means that your general value as a person is the foundation of your value as a mate / partner.

And you can better conceptualize it as a topping, rather than a subset.
As in a pyramid, and it goes above your general value:

Once you're high-value in general, it's about translating it, adapting, and adding some dating-specific elements. But a high-value man already starts at a high SMV

It's rare, but some men become very successful in life, with zero dating experience.
These men then are already high-ish value -albeit you can never be very high value if you're clueless about power dynamics- and often still do well: when they meet inexperienced women, their lack of dating experience is not a huge issue.
And when they meet experienced women, the women think "oh my God, he's a diamond in the rough and he doesn't even realize it, I gotta snap him up right away".

And it's the same in anything else in life that involves exchanges with other people:

• Social value is your foundational value + social skills
• Job market value is your foundational value + professional skills
• Leadership value is your foundational value + leadership skills
• ...

That already suggests the ideal "learning order": foundations first, various niches later:

Ideal learning order: foundations first

 

For two reasons:

1. The foundations matter more, and improve everything else
2. You're far more rounded when you internalize the foundations

Not learning the foundations and going straight to the top leads to two major issues:

1. Glass ceilings. In dating, the guys who are low-ish general value and throw themself into dating often see good results. But they hit an invisible ceiling if they don't increase their general value as well. Especially when ti comes to relationships with high-quality women, as opposed to a string of one night stands.
   Guys who start with dating while also low-ish in social skills / power awareness will struggle a lot more:
2. Bind spots & "weird vibe": Furthermore, if they weren't born with a natural grasp of general social skills, they will often miss out on many foundational aspects and generally come across as "off", or even "weird".

The same is true for the other realms.

In professional settings, being, say, the best coder gives you a great salary, but you'll never get to the board of directors.

And in leadership, well... Actually, it may not even be possible to become a leader without strong social and power skills.

You can start with dating IF...

Exceptions always apply.

So if -IF- one is naturally at least somewhat power-aware and socially skilled, then it's probably not the end of the world if you start from the top and work your way down.

Also because there is obviously an overlap between the two.

It's simply impossible to get good at dating, without also improving your general value as a person.
And it's also impossible to get good at dating without also learning, internalizing, and applying power dynamics principles.

Much of "game" boils down to being higher power than the woman + making her feel good and valued (the "alpha male game" approach very popular these days often either forgets that second part, or downplays it).

And the other way around: as you acquire foundational social and power skills, your dating skills also improve.

In brief: PU first, unless you're after immediate dating quick wins

I'd generally always recommend to start with Power University first and then go for Seduction University.

Yes, it's a challenging course and yes it will take you some time.

But what you learn with Power University ALSO already heavily translates to dating, so it's not like you're wasting time on something completely off-topic (even when introducing general principles and strategies, some of the examples are also from dating because the concepts are simply the same).

On the other hand, if speed and immediate results are all that matter to you and if you have some good grasp of general power dynamics, then you can go with Seduction University (and then see whether PU also makes sense for you, albeit I generally think it does).

Opinions?

Also curious if other people have the same or different opinions.

What's your take guys?
How's your experience been?

Quote from B on December 14, 2022, 7:55 pm

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on December 13, 2022, 5:02 am

1. The foundations matter more, and improve everything else
2. You're far more rounded when you internalize the foundations

Not learning the foundations and going straight to the top leads to two major issues:

1. Glass ceilings. In dating, the guys who are low-ish general value and throw themself into dating often see good results. But they hit an invisible ceiling if they don't increase their general value as well. Especially when ti comes to relationships with high-quality women, as opposed to a string of one night stands.
   Guys who start with dating while also low-ish in social skills / power awareness will struggle a lot more:
2. Bind spots & "weird vibe": Furthermore, if they weren't born with a natural grasp of general social skills, they will often miss out on many foundational aspects and generally come across as "off", or even "weird".

The same is true for the other realms.

In professional settings, being, say, the best coder gives you a great salary, but you'll never get to the board of directors.

And in leadership, well... Actually, it may not even be possible to become a leader without strong social and power skills.

...

Opinions?

Also curious if other people have the same or different opinions.

What's your take guys?
How's your experience been?

Many years ago, when I started learning dating dynamics, I did not know power dynamics at all.

And, learning to date was pure hell for several years.

The most hellish thing was that I could instantly lose a person with an unaware "power-slip". And the other was that I tended to attract highly narcissistic types of women.

But, alas, I didn't understand anything about this kind of person. It was simply hell.

So I absolutely second the learning order based on general power dynamics first, and dating second.

Albeit I also think that, at least for a man, not knowing how to date takes precedence, in terms of unconscious suffering, even to not understanding power dynamics.

But still, starting from general power dynamics and general socialization at least lets one avoid "partners from hell" situations, which can set one back for a long time.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on December 15, 2022, 2:13 am

Thank you so much for this Bel, it's super valuable.

If anyone else has their own experience to share, happy to read.

Quote from B on February 27, 2023, 7:59 pm

Adding to the above as I now understand some instances in which I was doing things reasonably "right" from a dating perspective, but my lack of power-awareness still soured things.

I remember one particular example. I was at a first date, and we went to lunch at a place near my work. I had already gone to this place for lunch one or two times, with colleagues or alone.

So we sit down, the waiter comes, he looks at the girl, smiles, and... he pats me on the shoulder.

Now that's one situation where power-awareness would have made a difference.