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How to ostracize a value-taker

John, have you considered going there?

The ostracization and "cutting off" can go on with you ghosting him, but you can still go there.

I guess we don't need to quote the Godfather and his take on how (fr)enemies and closeness :).
But jokes aside, it doesn't have to be that way since you're not in a war but, in a way, it's also a power statement you make to yourself when you're able to walk into the place of the guy you dislike.
And you're going to learn from this situation even more.

Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

I agree, I would learn more if I would go there.

I've considered going there. But I prefer to go to my other friend's place and make new bonds.

No we don't need to quote him. I know he will influence people against me by not going there. But to me, this group is burned. I won't fight for it. He secured his 2 friends so I'm in a minority. I agree with you in terms of power dynamics and politics this is not the right move.

However, for my well-being it's the right move. That's how I see it. My thinking is the following: if I go, I cement the "we do board games together every saturday". I would also go as a follower. I want to stop this dynamics. I noticed how aggressive he is when he's at my place so I cannot imagine how he'll be at his. I might be wrong though. I admit I'm a bit afraid as these kind of guys hit hard and mean.

Edit: I know why it hurts so much. It's because the same happened in the group where I grew up as a teenager. The guy who I thought was my best friend is a faker. He betrayed me many times and played the victim. It took me years to recognize it. So this wound has not yet fully healed. That might also be the reason why I keep re-living these situations of betrayal.

Quote from John Freeman on January 15, 2021, 8:55 pm

I admit I'm a bit afraid as these kind of guys hit hard and mean.

Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I put it out there.

But this idea of "having to face fears at all cost, no matter when, how and why" is bankrupt. You only need to face your fears when they indeed help you grow and/or when it makes sense.

But from a learning perspective, it might make more sense to regroup for a while and upgrade.
One of the reasons why some people stick with abusive relationships is that deep down they're hoping and waiting for their revenge time. But it doesn't usually work like that.

From a power dynamics and social strategy perspective, if he's there with his old friends alone, then there is no loss in not going, and there is little to be gained in going.
And it's probably a better -and healthier- choice to solidify and improve the better relationships.

John Freeman has reacted to this post.
John Freeman
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

Thanks for the wisdom, it's helpful. As you can see in these situations I feel a bit disempowered. So it's not easy for me to make these kind of decisions. It's the old pain of previous rejections that comes back haunting me as written above. Everything you says, I agree with. Thanks for helping me making decisions in this situation. I'm all about the "facing fears" approach. That's the intra-psychic conflict I'm in: "Fight your fears vs Preserve yourself". I'm also learning by letting him hit me mentally and emotionnally I've told myself a negative story where he's stronger than me. Meaner, yes. Stronger, no.

That's the trap with mental domination. If you let yourself be mentally dominated, then you now have a reference experience where you have been dominated by said individual. I made the mistake of being too agreeable and not fighting back. But the cost is that I let myself be beat down. He swung one hit, saw that I was not hitting back and swung more hits. So I'm still recovering from the shame attacks. That's the unfortunate truth. I built this as a rule into my life: to keep negative and toxic people as much out of my life as possible.

It's important to be in shape when fighting these individuals. Especially if feeling tired, down or drunk. Weak in any kind of shape. Then it's over. As you said, it's time to regroup. I made the mistake I'm talking about in the paragraph above. I paid it dearly.

Now I understand what he did: he used all the private information I've disclosed to him 1-on-1 to use them in shame attacks publicly. That's smart but that's not how he's going to attract high-quality people. He should be ashamed.

Edit: he managed to bring in R. and his new girlfriend. So there's a little loss. But yes, otherwise it's him and his 2 buddies.

Edit2: I realize I don't have yet the social skills to play at this level. Sad but true.

Matthew Whitewood has reacted to this post.
Matthew Whitewood

That's smart but that's not how he's going to attract high-quality people

Yeah, "smart" very relatively.
One of those cases where excessive Machiavellianism comes back to bite you in the ass.

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Matthew WhitewoodJohn Freeman
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

Here is a follow-up on this process.

My friend R. housemate organized a board game night at his place yesterday. And hopefully, nasty social climber A. was in France. So he did not come. What happened is that we had an amazing evening without any nasty personal attacks disguised as jokes.

So I would say I'm happy we could meet without him. So people can compare the vibe with or without him. When I'll do a housewarming I also will not invite him. In this case I was helped by lady luck, but I know there will be a confrontation with him in the future. Now I know he's not a friend and I'll be ready to fight him: with mostly surfacing techniques or shaming AND humor, that is what was missing in my social game. Say what you advised me to say Lucio about defending against "you're a genius" but with humor. In this way I won't spoil the atmosphere with our fight. I won't ignore him (does not work) nor go higher.

The frame is : "this guy is a nasty person pretending to be nice". I will do it only when he attacks so people will see that I'm not aggressive, just stating my boundaries.

The mindset is: "I am not letting myself getting insulted, even if it's frame as a joke".

The tone will be: firm, detached and playful.

As I said, I don't think I can ostracize him fully as it would backfire on me. But I can make a value proposition of a higher quality than him which will attract people to me. From there, only time will tell.

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.
Lucio Buffalmano

Also something else important: I did not mention his name once.

Cool John,

Keep us updated on how that humor approach goes, quite interested in seeing the development -and cheering for the best result-.

John Freeman has reacted to this post.
John Freeman
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

I will. It's a work in progress as you see. I'll see him Saturday so I'll prepare a plan A and a plan B along with visualizations.

Here is an example of how a social climber value-taker was perceived when Jorge Masvidal saw his true face (social climbing on him online):

Jorge Masvidal:

At some point I would have considered him a real friend

Knowing he's been to the Internet to bash me and I have never bashed him.

If you would sell out our friendship like that so quick, we never had a friendship, you know.

I thought we had a friendship but I can see from your end to mine, you were never cool man, you were just using me.

He ripped off my coach. When that happened he died to me.

Jon Jones:

Colby is a lier. He really is a bad person.

(Cites a couple of names): it's no coincidence that so and so did not like him. I don't like him. He really is a rotten person.

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