I think I am disempowering myself upon first contact with lawyers and clients: troubleshooting
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on May 23, 2022, 10:40 amHey Bel,
The usual note here that you know the situation better than I do.
But as the not-so-knowledgeable outsider, I wouldn't consider that necessarily "nasty".
To me, it's still all yellow-level.
Nothing nice of course, and string a few of those together, and you go to orange.
But nothing too big either.
That "escaped me" thing, in many cases, it's just face-saving.
More turkey-level as it's most often a lie, but not nasty right off the bat unless it becomes a pattern from the same person.
Hey Bel,
The usual note here that you know the situation better than I do.
But as the not-so-knowledgeable outsider, I wouldn't consider that necessarily "nasty".
To me, it's still all yellow-level.
Nothing nice of course, and string a few of those together, and you go to orange.
But nothing too big either.
That "escaped me" thing, in many cases, it's just face-saving.
More turkey-level as it's most often a lie, but not nasty right off the bat unless it becomes a pattern from the same person.
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on May 23, 2022, 10:45 amHence, I'd also avoid the certified email note if it's the first time.
You also don't know how busy that person is, or what they've got on their plate.
Maybe they have a lot of high prio stuff.
They receive that email, and they'll be thinking "what the hell, for a slight delay now he's getting all this worked up".
Hence, I'd also avoid the certified email note if it's the first time.
You also don't know how busy that person is, or what they've got on their plate.
Maybe they have a lot of high prio stuff.
They receive that email, and they'll be thinking "what the hell, for a slight delay now he's getting all this worked up".
Quote from Bel on May 23, 2022, 11:00 amI see your point of view Lucio: I guess you are saying that the first line in my email (ie I can’t talk, send me your draft via email) is a sufficient response to his power move. For now. If he still misses my emails, I can send the warning shot about using certified emails.
Here is my POV: a person can certainly say sorry for the delay, but it is impolite to specify a reason when the reason disempowers the other person (eg sorry I missed your email because I receive so many more important than yours!).
And, most importantly, he was the one to ask me to talk in the first place.
As you said, his behavior empowers me, but his words demean me.The polite way to answer my email would have been:
Sorry, I made a mistake. I didn’t tell you I would not be available on Monday when I asked you to talk next week. Would you be available on Tuesday?
Instead he said:
“Sorry, I (who requested to speak to you because I want to convince you of my amendments to the draft, and can better do so on the phone than in writing) have higher priority stuff than this. And I can’t speak when you asked me to (in response to my request, that did not specify that Monday I couldn’t). But let’s do it immediately after so I can win this initial exchange and set the frame where you follow my lead, so that I can convince you that my amendments are better than the idiotic stuff you proposed. And thank you for your weak kindness and hopefully gullibility going forward.
I’m exaggerating a bit of course, but that’s what I get in my gut.
But I’ll think about it some more on whether to include the second part before sending this evening. Thank you very much for your perspective on this also.
Here is how the answer would be without that part:
Dear Colleague,
unfortunately in the slots You propose it won't be possible for me; let me thus have Your comments directly via email.
Kind regards
I see your point of view Lucio: I guess you are saying that the first line in my email (ie I can’t talk, send me your draft via email) is a sufficient response to his power move. For now. If he still misses my emails, I can send the warning shot about using certified emails.
Here is my POV: a person can certainly say sorry for the delay, but it is impolite to specify a reason when the reason disempowers the other person (eg sorry I missed your email because I receive so many more important than yours!).
And, most importantly, he was the one to ask me to talk in the first place.
As you said, his behavior empowers me, but his words demean me.
The polite way to answer my email would have been:
Sorry, I made a mistake. I didn’t tell you I would not be available on Monday when I asked you to talk next week. Would you be available on Tuesday?
Instead he said:
“Sorry, I (who requested to speak to you because I want to convince you of my amendments to the draft, and can better do so on the phone than in writing) have higher priority stuff than this. And I can’t speak when you asked me to (in response to my request, that did not specify that Monday I couldn’t). But let’s do it immediately after so I can win this initial exchange and set the frame where you follow my lead, so that I can convince you that my amendments are better than the idiotic stuff you proposed. And thank you for your weak kindness and hopefully gullibility going forward.
I’m exaggerating a bit of course, but that’s what I get in my gut.
But I’ll think about it some more on whether to include the second part before sending this evening. Thank you very much for your perspective on this also.
Here is how the answer would be without that part:
Dear Colleague,
unfortunately in the slots You propose it won't be possible for me; let me thus have Your comments directly via email.
Kind regards
Quote from Bel on May 23, 2022, 4:58 pmUpdate: my client told me that the counterpart is also pressing its lawyer to speak with me quickly. The counterpart also tried to reach its lawyer today to no avail.
It’s possible my answer above I’m planning to send tonight may make the power move of other lawyer somewhat backfire on him, since he wrote to me after several days that he had received my contacts (which was Tuesday of last week) and since I gave him the earliest availability to speak now, which he refused.However, there is a possibility that all these delays by him, while used by him to power move, may in fact also signify he really has a full plate as Lucio said. But I still am unsure whether this might justify changing the tone of my message (maybe) and/or considering speaking with him on Wednesday as he proposed (probably not).
Update: my client told me that the counterpart is also pressing its lawyer to speak with me quickly. The counterpart also tried to reach its lawyer today to no avail.
It’s possible my answer above I’m planning to send tonight may make the power move of other lawyer somewhat backfire on him, since he wrote to me after several days that he had received my contacts (which was Tuesday of last week) and since I gave him the earliest availability to speak now, which he refused.
However, there is a possibility that all these delays by him, while used by him to power move, may in fact also signify he really has a full plate as Lucio said. But I still am unsure whether this might justify changing the tone of my message (maybe) and/or considering speaking with him on Wednesday as he proposed (probably not).
Quote from Bel on May 23, 2022, 10:34 pmUpdate:
I sent this:
Dear Colleague,
unfortunately in the slots You propose it won't be possible for me.
Let me thus have Your comments directly via email.
Kind regards
Minutes later I received this answer:
If more convenient for You, we can also find a space Thursday or Friday.
I await Yours.
Thank you and good eveningWe are already writing Attorney Power University here (btw, let’s call it Lawyer Power University!).
Update:
I sent this:
Dear Colleague,
unfortunately in the slots You propose it won't be possible for me.
Let me thus have Your comments directly via email.
Kind regards
Minutes later I received this answer:
If more convenient for You, we can also find a space Thursday or Friday.
I await Yours.
Thank you and good evening
We are already writing Attorney Power University here (btw, let’s call it Lawyer Power University!).
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on May 24, 2022, 3:52 amBOOM!
That was the perfect way to power move:
- Brief
- Little investment
- Kind (on the surface), but...
- ... Laying on the table all your leverage
Personally, I'd go back now to quick and win-win:
Yeah, we can also do that, call me Thu between 3 and 6pm.
BOOM!
That was the perfect way to power move:
- Brief
- Little investment
- Kind (on the surface), but...
- ... Laying on the table all your leverage
Personally, I'd go back now to quick and win-win:
Yeah, we can also do that, call me Thu between 3 and 6pm.
Quote from Bel on May 24, 2022, 11:33 amThank you Lucio!
I am considering whether to also insist on receiving his comments by email in advance to show to my client I am trying to accelerate things and to avoid surprises on the call:
Yes, we can also do that, call me Thu between 3 and 6pm. In the meantime please send me your comments via email as well.
Thank you Lucio!
I am considering whether to also insist on receiving his comments by email in advance to show to my client I am trying to accelerate things and to avoid surprises on the call:
Yes, we can also do that, call me Thu between 3 and 6pm. In the meantime please send me your comments via email as well.
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on May 24, 2022, 2:40 pmI think at this level of detail you probably know better (also considering I went fast through the thread).
But the mindset and approach seems correct.
I think at this level of detail you probably know better (also considering I went fast through the thread).
But the mindset and approach seems correct.
Quote from John Freeman on May 24, 2022, 6:45 pmI agree with Lucio about the initial contact.
It's something that took me a long time to learn. I had the example today as a colleague (equal) tried to task me via email ("call me at this number, I'm available from 11am"). It was the first time we collaborated even though we met many times in the hospital. I tasked him back (and ignored his last message) as he's supposed to be calling me to report about the patient that he saw in hospital communication habits ("Please call me at this number when you're available").
It worked: he called me and now he's all collaborative with me. He knew he was pulling a power move. He's treating me like an equal, even slightly submissive (I'm an elder to him in experience and age).
If I had not read this thread before I would have missed it: power-savvy/dominant people go high power/dominant first and if the person resists as in my case they go lower-power. If the person caves in: good move, now they are in the higher-up position.
So it's a cheap power move: you get to be the dominant for not too much effort: on the first encounter you set the frame.
By cheap, I mean it does not cost a lot of energy (not as in stingy or low). It's smart.
Otherwise, I liked your self-trouble-shooting: more matter of fact, less warmth. Warmth is appropriate when you get to know the person or have a reason to be warm or want to reciprocate warmth. Otherwise, it can be interpreted as weakness especially in this business setting.
As long as you are polite, the matter-of-fact style of email is the default I would say. Then with people you have good collaboration, you can add warmth. That's how I go about it.
I agree with Lucio about the initial contact.
It's something that took me a long time to learn. I had the example today as a colleague (equal) tried to task me via email ("call me at this number, I'm available from 11am"). It was the first time we collaborated even though we met many times in the hospital. I tasked him back (and ignored his last message) as he's supposed to be calling me to report about the patient that he saw in hospital communication habits ("Please call me at this number when you're available").
It worked: he called me and now he's all collaborative with me. He knew he was pulling a power move. He's treating me like an equal, even slightly submissive (I'm an elder to him in experience and age).
If I had not read this thread before I would have missed it: power-savvy/dominant people go high power/dominant first and if the person resists as in my case they go lower-power. If the person caves in: good move, now they are in the higher-up position.
So it's a cheap power move: you get to be the dominant for not too much effort: on the first encounter you set the frame.
By cheap, I mean it does not cost a lot of energy (not as in stingy or low). It's smart.
Otherwise, I liked your self-trouble-shooting: more matter of fact, less warmth. Warmth is appropriate when you get to know the person or have a reason to be warm or want to reciprocate warmth. Otherwise, it can be interpreted as weakness especially in this business setting.
As long as you are polite, the matter-of-fact style of email is the default I would say. Then with people you have good collaboration, you can add warmth. That's how I go about it.