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I vs You, When to use which?
Overall as I go through lessons there I saw many ways in which to use "me" and "you" effectively, and it becomes hard to wrap your head around.
Keeping the "you" frame, for example in high-emotions attacks self-defence, you want to keep the bad frame on others, because "I" is defensive and shows you are being affected.
On the other hand I remember many lessons that said owning something, even showing weakness is also good, power-aligning for example.
From what I can understand, if it's a frame that's bad for you, you try to focus on the person making it, not on yourself. Exception is if you can turn the bad frame into a good frame for you. When mistake is yours and you don't lose horribly, you also take the "I" route to look high quality, if I got it wrong correct me please.
Can you give a general idea on when to use each one? Because if not then it's really tough to learn anything from those concepts other than "well, I just have to do what feels right" and trail and error.
I reflected a bit on this.
And at the moment, I couldn't come up with a general rule that would make sense.
Off the top of my head "you" only makes sense when it's an angry or very emotional response that you don't even want to entertain so you keep it "with him".
But if you list the examples you're referring to, that can help to see the patterns.
It's possible there is some general unifying thread, but it's always much more helpful to get there from various examples.
RULES VS DEVELOPING THE FEEL
I also reflected on whether it should by my task to come up with more general rules.
And my answer so far was:
Only when the rule is strong (ie.: not many exceptions), applies to many situations, and is easy to remember and upon.
Otherwise, having many general rules may become more of a hindrandce than a support because you'd have to memorize and recollect them.
So, while many more rules don't necessarily make you more effective, learning to develop that feel for power dynamics, strategies, and what's best does make you more effective.
Happy to read more opinions on this.
Including if someone can come up with some general and easy answer for the "I VS you" decision.
Golden answer from you Lucio.
So true. It's more valuable to learn the feel. However, the path to this is many mistakes. I think it's unavoidable in the learning process. Also, there is the body language, the tone and the relationship that can change everything.
You can say the same thing and it comes across as an attack or as a friendly joke.
I have a take on "I" though. I think it's more mature to use "I" when exchanging in a situation when 2 perceptions are contradicting one another. When one is using "I" it is respectful of the other's perspective. Using "I" in difficult conversations takes responsibility for one's perspective, actions and feelings. This is also good conversational leadership as it allows the other person to do the same without being afraid that it's going to be used against them.
That being said, it asks two people to be ready to be vulnerable. So context matters a lot here. But as a general "rule", I think that using "I" in difficult conversations with a person willing to be open as well is a good rule of thumb.
Cheers John, thank you so much for your thoughts, they're super helpful.
Sometimes I'm torn between:
- The responsibility to make it (feel) as easy as possible to learn ("do this, do that", "laws", lots of general rules, etc.)
- The responsibility to make the learning more "internalizable" and long-term (becoming)
I see my task as to make it both as easy as possible, as well as most transformational as possible.
The issue is: I think sometimes the two do NOT go hand in hand.
To make it as easy as possible, general rules may help.
If one were to read a lot of rules or a lot of prescriptive "always do this", it would feel "simpler" and more structured.
But it wouldn't necessarily lead to better internalizing the material, and it wouldn't necessarily lead to personal transformation.
So while I want to come up with as many general principles as possible, I'm also very wary of the danger of "over-generalizing".
Sometimes you can come up with general principles.
Some other times... Not so much.
And the general principle would lead to more confusion than help (see the articles on The 48 Laws of Power where I've seen beginners come up with all the stupidest sh*t).
If anyone has any further thoughts on this, happy to read more (in another thread to avoid off topics :D )
