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Is every post searchable with google?
Hello Lucio,
I see now that every forum post is searchable with google. Is it on purpose?
More than on purpose, I'd say it's the norm.
Everything published on the web is generally crawled and listed by Google, unless somehow restricted by password, no-index tags, or hidden behind some sort of firewall / paywall.
I think even PU lessons are indexed if you search specific sentences, but after you click on them, you can't access them.
Well, on several forums I've been on before and still am it was not the norm. Especially with sensitive topics such as the ones we're discussing. If I would have known it was searchable by the whole World, I would have written differently.
As I already said, for me privacy is very important.
Would you consider removing the forum posts from the global google search in order to better protect forum members' privacy?
John, pepole who reach this forum for the vast, vast majority, reach it through the website and/or articles, not straight from Google.
The Google's presence of this forum is negligible since forums tend to have low SEO-relevance.
Here's the actual numbers of people ending up on the forum from Google:
The forum as a whole is at 0.04% of visits.
And of those, the majority -17- already knew the forum -those are most likely users who didn't favorite the forum and search for things like "the power moves forum"-.
SINGLE FORUM POSTS
Single forum posts are much lower than that.
The ones that do best are "dominant men" (#1 frum post on Google), "Amanda Knox psychopath", or that "guilt-tripping example" that's shown in the analytics as well.
And even those tops ones, are extremely poor compared to the homepage, or the articles.
In short: that someone finds this forum from those forum posts, that's far, far lower chances than someone finding this forum from the articles, or from the homepage.
And that's because the majority of forum posts are buried so deep that they'd never come up on the first pages -contrary to many popular articles, which are either top or near the top-.
So seeking to increase privacy by de-indexing the forum would be like trying to increase someone's real-life privacy by adding a mole on their face in an effort to "cover" their face.
Of course, it's not impossible that someone might be able to recognize someone they know on this forum -probably lower chances than winning the lottery, though-.
But it won't be because they searched for information about you or your life circumstances on Google:
NO CHANCE SOMEONE FINDS YOU HERE SEARCHING ON GOOGLE
Next, there is the danger of "people actively looking for me".
Well, in that case, chances are even lower, in my opinion.
The moment they use your real name, they already got sidetracked, instead of helped.
And the moment they might write "doctor", or "doctor in X", well... Good luck with that.
That someone finds someone on this forum because they searched for information on them on Google, that'd be like a monkey randomly typing on a typewriter and coming with PU.
So, in my opinion, that posts are "searchable" is more a mind-trap that leverages:
- Mind bias towards risk aversion
- Lack of real-number knowledge (that the above partially addressed)
- Mind's difficulties in addressing extreme low probabilities (this one goes both in the negative and in the positive)
- The choice of words and how they frame the issue -"searchable"-
To make another example with the same word: a specific atom of water is "searchable" in the ocean by anyone with a microscope.
But the chances that one finds it, either by accident or by looking for it, are negligible.
I don't take my privacy too seriously, but I take people's privacy seriously, so I took some time in these two posts to address that.
If any more questions, just let me know.
So seeking to increase privacy by de-indexing the forum would be like trying to increase someone's real-life privacy by adding a mole on their face in an effort to "cover" their face.
So I consider that as a "No".
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 8, 2021, 9:24 pmJohn, pepole who reach this forum for the vast, vast majority, reach it through the website and/or articles, not straight from Google.
Lucio, this seems clear to me.
The Google's presence of this forum is negligible since forums tend to have low SEO-relevance.
Here's the actual numbers of people ending up on the forum from Google:
The forum as a whole is at 0.04% of visits.
And of those, the majority -17- already knew the forum -those are most likely users who didn't favorite the forum and search for things like "the power moves forum"-.
Thanks for the actual data.
SINGLE FORUM POSTS
Single forum posts are much lower than that.
The ones that do best are "dominant men" (#1 frum post on Google), "Amanda Knox psychopath", or that "guilt-tripping example" that's shown in the analytics as well.
And even those tops ones, are extremely poor compared to the homepage, or the articles.
In short: that someone finds this forum from those forum posts, that's far, far lower chances than someone finding this forum from the articles, or from the homepage.
And that's because the majority of forum posts are buried so deep that they'd never come up on the first pages -contrary to many popular articles, which are either top or near the top-.
So seeking to increase privacy by de-indexing the forum would be like trying to increase someone's real-life privacy by adding a mole on their face in an effort to "cover" their face.
Of course, it's not impossible that someone might be able to recognize someone they know on this forum -probably lower chances than winning the lottery, though-.
But it won't be because they searched for information about you or your life circumstances on Google:
This is clear to me as well. I don't think people are searching actively for me. But rather that people through their google search could find posts that I wrote and are able to identify me since I wrote information that makes me identifiable.
That being said, my point is: would have I known that the level of privacy was not the one I expected (public information), I would have expressed myself differently. Now I know.
NO CHANCE SOMEONE FINDS YOU HERE SEARCHING ON GOOGLE
Next, there is the danger of "people actively looking for me".
Well, in that case, chances are even lower, in my opinion.
The moment they use your real name, they already got sidetracked, instead of helped.
And the moment they might write "doctor", or "doctor in X", well... Good luck with that.That someone finds someone on this forum because they searched for information on them on Google, that'd be like a monkey randomly typing on a typewriter and coming with PU.
This is not my point. You answered my question thoroughly, thanks.
I don't take my privacy too seriously, but I take people's privacy seriously, so I took some time in these two posts to address that.
Yes, I also think it's one of the responsibilities of a forum admin.
I completely understand your point of view and your 4 arguments which seem reasonable: there are so many things beyond my perceptions! However, it's not a factual issue, it's a value issue. Also, we have a different perception of reality and that affects the weight each one of us puts on any issue, including this one.
If any more questions, just let me know.
I do not have more questions, thanks for your availability. It's all good!
OK, to answer your previous comment:
So I consider that as a "No".
Not a "no", Of course I would consider it.
I consider anything that the community wants and/or that makes the community better.
Of course, to eventually be a "yes" -or a "no"-, the new change should either be important to the community's member(s) and/or make sense from a benefit/implementation point of view.
In this case, I see a mainly psychological reason, which is still real and so not to be wholly discounted, and a rational approach, that shows that the change would have negligible effects.
On the cost-side, that would mean I'd have to research how to de-index the forum only, and whether or not that might come at a cost to the website as a whole -I remember reading some time ago that Google didn't like websites with large portions of de-indexed content-.
So let's see if anyone has anything else to add.
MINDSETS & APPROACHES
Privacy also has a lot to do with mindsets and values.
There are many situations why staying anonymous grant real advantages, for sure -or where not staying anonymous can come at a price-.
But there are also equally powerful forces that are not wholly rational, or that can be unlocked with a mindset change.
For example, there are almost no "risks" of someone snapping a picture and, by accident, there's you in it.
But it pisses many people off to just "be" in that picture.
On the internet, it's similar with cookies -I have my own opinion on that, thinking that it's a huge time-waste to get cookies popups everywhere, but let's skip that-.
I think this deserves its own topic, maybe later in the mindsets section.
Lucio, thanks for sharing the statistics.
It is very helpful in keeping things in perspective.
Letting John Have the Ability to Delete & Amend Posts
I consider anything that the community wants and/or that makes the community better.
What do you think about letting John have the ability to delete and amend past posts?
He has been a long-time and respected member on this forum.
And he cares about privacy so he would not be linking to his own work.
In this case, we use current features, keep this on an individual level with John and do not change the current trajectory of what's in the plan for the larger community.
CAVEAT
I'm not sure if it's possible to let only John delete and amend his posts.
LARGER WHY - How Data Privacy Relates to Ownership & Control?
Data privacy is linked to the concept of ownership and control.
If you own and control something, you can make it private.
Ownership when it comes to data is difficult to define.
Data is after all information.
Can you own information?
It is a grey area.
If someone snaps a picture of you on the street without your consent, I think, in most cases, the photographer has the copyright.
Now the question becomes
Who owns the posts on ThePowerMoves?
For example,
Does Lucio or a user own what a user posts on this forum?
I took a look at the privacy policy of ThePowerMoves and could be a grey area.
I am not in a position to advise in this case.
But this is not about the legal aspect.
We all know that no one likes to deal with GDPR.
It is about people feeling more comfortable when they own and control their data.
In this case, I'm suggesting a middle ground that allows John to have more control over his posts.
I get a sense that John considers his posts to be a bit personal.
How Important is the Psychological Aspect of Privacy?
In this case, I see a mainly psychological reason, which is still real and so not to be wholly discounted, and a rational approach, that shows that the change would have negligible effects.
In a sense, John may care more about whether Lucio cares about his privacy than his actual privacy.
Because the former means that he can post freely on this forum knowing that there's a level of safety.
Which is why John talked about
PROS & CONS
Let's talk about the pros & cons from Lucio's perspective.
Lucio usually puts cons for his book reviews first.
Good to end off on a positive note.
Cons
- I think that this is the biggest consideration for Lucio.
Would any change in the features on this forum be good for the community?
If we change this individually for John, we minimise this a little bit. - Is this feature even possible for John? My suggestion or the de-indexing solution.
There's some risk of looking into a solution and not finding one.
Loss of time and possibly money by consulting developers. - I have the same view as Lucio on time.
Time is life.
Lucio is giving up a part of his life to attend to this request.
Is this time spent worth to pursue his vision of letting value-adding people become more power savvy and stand up to the evil of this world? - Money - Lucio may need to consult developers.
Spending time on this may take away from the core business as well.
Pros
- A psychological feeling of privacy on this forum can promote greater inclusivity.
People like private parties, private chats, private mansions, etc.
All this is debatable because not only do we have to make this forum more privacy-centric, we also need to market this to create the feeling. - John is a long-standing member, and we may all benefit from him sharing openly on his perspectives and stories.
Making his posts more private may help John continue to do so.
Points Still Under Consideration - Neither Pros Nor Cons
- A more neutral point is the actual privacy increased by de-indexing from the web as Lucio has pointed out.
- I think that this is the biggest consideration for Lucio.
Would any change in the features on this forum be good for the community?
If we change this individually for John, we minimise this a little bit.
 Dear Matthew,
I think there is a misunderstanding. I never asked to delete my posts.
Dear Lucio,
it feels like you're painting a picture of me as someone irrational several times in the posts above. For instance, when you're comparing me with people who would get pissed off because they're in the picture of someone else. This in turn would make all my arguments seem stupid (ad hominem).
There is a concept in computer science that is called "Encapsulation". This is about "how far" any data is "visible". This concepts also relates to data security.
For the moment, the visibility of the posts of the forum is to the whole World.
What I'm proposing is for you to provide increased privacy and safety to all users of this forum. I understand that privacy is not very important for you as you personally benefit from publicity. However, I think that most forum users do want and enjoy privacy, since they also chose to use a nickname, like me.
What I'm saying is that a value proposition like: "all your posts are only visible from the forum" is a different value proposition than "all your posts are visible for the entire World."
To me, this is offering more value to your users and therefore to your customers.
What do you think?
