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Is men SMV underestimated?
Hello TPM community,
quick thoughts:
I've been on dates and had relationships with quite a few women now. This is what I noticed:
On dating apps it's very hard for a man to have a date, even more the more "average" one is (it's documented).
However, the women I dated etc. often have a quality issue: mental health, emotional health, overweight, entitlement, manipulative behaviour (guilt-tripping, gaslighting, shaming, etc.), unresolved childhood trauma, radical feminism, etc.
I'm a bit biased as I am hardcore into self-development, so I have high expectations in terms of quality. However, my peace of mind, self-esteem, self-confidence are priceless. So if they are in jeopardy, I prefer to stay single. I worked too much to get these.
So actually what I notice is that:
A man (like me, cannot talk for others) struggles on dating apps: so he goes to the gym, does self-improvement, improve his career, social circle, etc.
In the mean time, most women don't work as much on themselves. And personally I don't care about her career. I will support her but I'm fine with a painter or a high power exec (actually prefer the artists). I care about her personality and her appearance.
So the man will feel like his SMV is lower value than it is. Then he goes out with the hot chick and find she's lower value than he thought and he goes: "WTF? Is this a scam or what?"
So I think we could break down SMV in:
- First impression value
- Real value
Or
- Perceived SMV
- Real SMV
I'll take an example. We want to buy an electric razor/new TV/computer, etc. The ad looks great, reviews are amazing. We buy it and we feel we got great value for what we bought. We're excited we use it for 2 weeks and then it breaks down or malfunctions. And we're like: "I thought it was great value, but my money was actually worth more than this thing".
So I feel that perceived SMV is more favourable to women. Knowing that men's sex drive is much higher than of women, men will also inflate women's SMV through increasing the demand for women: men will chase more women, women will be more picky (relationship, safety, etc.). So 1 man will ask many women and when all men do this, they give an overinflated sense of value to the woman: "I got 100 likes, I'm a goddess". Whereas it's just 100 horny men swiping right.
I'm curious to know what are your thoughts on this.
Interesting food for thought.
Some random thoughts:
- Everyone who worked in self-development is underestimated in SMV
I think men's SVM may be underestimated only insofar he worked on himself.
But that at point, the same is true for women.
It may be more true for women since they're more judged on external qualities.
- Everyone has "issues". It's only a matter of "how many" and "to which degree"
About this:
Quote from John Freeman on January 14, 2024, 11:06 amHowever, the women I dated etc. often have a quality issue: mental health, emotional health, overweight, entitlement, manipulative behaviour (guilt-tripping, gaslighting, shaming, etc.), unresolved childhood trauma, radical feminism, etc.
I don't think it's the women you dated.
It's the human race.
So it's more of a question of what's acceptable and what's not.
- The curse of self-development (?): most people seem unworthy of you when you're above average
You're bound to see more of those issues if you've been in (successful) self-development.
In that sense, a path of self-development can make relationships more challenging.
I can look at myself, without self-development I'd have a (much more pronounced) fragile ego, higher narcissist-ish traits, and I'd still be grabbing a partner's calves to lower her self-esteem.
Humans "straight out of the box" can be pretty pretty (covertly) nasty or fucked up :).
And it becomes more obvious when you've been into self-development and working on yourself.
- Staying single VS realistic expectations VS stacking the odds
I'd say that staying single is a viable option.
The other one is to simply have more realistic expectations.
And expect flaws that we may find hard to live with -but that we can, by focusing on the positives and finding ways around it-.
And the third way is to accept both options as valid, while still trying our best to stack the odds of finding the right partner in our favor.
Including: moving and meeting more.
Thank you so much Lucio for this enlightening post. It does clear things up for me.
I also love that it ends up with an “up to you” flavour after having presented pros and cons. I think it’s the hallmark of free/rational thinking and a testimony to your respect towards people. It seems you see their flaws and still avoid the trap of misanthropy. Inspiring. (Avoided the free thinker label and take people as they are myself, no general bias).
No comments on the content. It’s food for thoughts for me. I have to see what works better for me. I think I’ll find the answer in experience rather than in thoughts.
Edit: actually the title would be more accurate as “is people’s doing self-development SMV underestimated ?” (If admins feel it’s better fit happy either way)
Reciprocal disclosure: I would be an ego fragile insecure social climbing arrogant turkey. And more! :D good we aren’t these people anymore and grateful to them for the choices they made.
edit3 (apologies for the multiple edits, ideas often come to me afterwards): thanks your message helps me to be more understanding with people: friends, family, women included.
Still a little sigh as how much more we have to go as a species to be more mature if only on a mental and emotional level. Hundreds of years at a minimum. But at the same time it’s exciting. What we have access to in terms of self-development now I cannot imagine what will exist in 100 years.
