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Jordan Peterson And Robert Greene On How To Integrate Your Shadow
So around 1 month ago, Jordan Peterson interviewed Robert Greene on his Youtube Channel. Overall I found the interview very interesting, but I especially liked this part:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuBATf-hxT0
There was a part of this video that specifically helped me to do some self-reflection where they discuss about getting "cancelled" when we express aggressivity as kids. This is something that happened a lot to me (probably also because I was a very aggressive kid), and indeed I channeled this aggressivity a lot towards myself. Not a great way to develop personal power.
Channeling anger for creativity is also a great advice that I've used more than once.
Overall, the video is also great to understand the dangers of wanting to create a "paradize on earth" type of society where the individual is completely erased. It reminded me of a lot of concepts that Lucio already pointed out there.
Yeah, I watched that interview.
I remember being surprised at JP's first reaction to Greene's work, as if it was too dark or too negative.
It's instead very much in line with what JP also says, except that Greene only focuses on the more predatory and game-playing element of human nature, rather than also on the potential for collaboration, and win-win -say, the focus is more on the "darker side", without much of the "light"-.
Overlap between JP & TPM
And yes, I agree with you, there is quite some overlap between JP and TPM.
Not by chance I quoted him a few times here and there.
TPM though focuses more on the practical side of strategies and techniques and the what you can do to acquire people skills, maximize persuasion, defend yourself, set up win-wins, seduce, advance at work etc. etc. (ie.: maximize your results),
Also curious to hear what others think about that triangle TPM / Greene / Jordan Peterson.
I had read lots of books by Robert Greene before getting to know The Power Moves, and while I enjoyed them very much, the improvement in my life I got from those was essentially insignificant. They are more of a historical/literature review on themes of power, and contain little actionable material. I think their usefulness to me was in priming my mind to the feeling that something was going on that I did not understand, and it was mostly hurting me.
On the other hand, I got to know Jordan Peterson thanks to The Power Moves, and his philosophy was and is a nice addition to what I learned from the former. I think Peterson is an outstanding person. And much of what Peterson teaches is really really useful, including the key concept (also in TPM) that unless you are able to fully think as an evil person, you already lost. But I doubt I would have understood much had I not read TPM first.
In the end, The Power Moves and Power University is simply the best source on how to become aware of power dynamics and use them to protect yourself and advance in life. It is the detail of the explanation and the comprehensiveness of the content that makes a difference.
One thing that instead made a huge difference for me before getting to know The Power Moves was reading about narcissism and other personality disorders. That made a real difference, but only in allowing me to distance myself from bad people. I understand malevolence fully now.
TPM on the other hand taught me (and is continuing to teach me) how to interact with these bad people from a position of power: which is infinitely more useful, because you simply can’t always distance yourself.
Greene and Peterson on the other hand only focus on specific limited aspects, but both miss the bigger picture and the “how-to” details. And that is because, I think, both of them on the one hand have a different focus, and on the other hand do not simply understand the power dynamics with the same level of depth and field of view that is in TPM.
Thank you Bel, that's very helpful feedback.
I tend to agree with it.
When it comes to the practical, including the practical-leaning learning and the life implementation, we're more in TPM territory.
If we're looking more at general self-help and life philosophy, including for those who prefer a theist and ethical approach, then Jordan Peterson is the guy (an outstanding man, as you say).
And if we're more looking more at general power dynamics awareness, historical contexts, links to general psychology... And just plain awesome book-reading experience, then we're more into Robert Greene territory (a top observer of human nature).
