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Laughing when asked "do you have questions?" Power Move

#1 · October 22, 2023, 6:47 pm

Hello TPM community,

a power move I encountered today. I was giving advice for home to a mother with a newborn who's also a chief nurse (in another hospital). At the end of the interview I said:

Me: do you have questions?
Her: Hahahaha
Nurse (present in the room): "makes a hand gesture with open hand like a karateka hitting a brick meaning that she broke me" (as we say in French).

So power moved on me as if I said was laughable Since having read about Lucio's opinion on friend's one-upping and previous experiences, I do think that something actually welcomes someone's power move. So it's about strategizing beforehand.

In this case several times I said: "since you're in healthcare" and somehow gave her an upgraded version of the advice. That was my mistake. I put her as a VIP. So she behaved as a VIP. She could have defended her status in front of the nurse or something else I did earlier. She's very power aware and has quite a good character, always positive.

Kavalier and Power Duck have reacted to this post.

#2 · October 22, 2023, 11:07 pm

I'm thinking offhand that you can close the interview since you're the interviewer and advice-giver

John: do you have questions?
Her: Hahahaha
Nurse (present in the room): "makes a hand gesture with open hand like a karateka hitting a brick meaning that she broke me" (as we say in French).
John: Great, let's wrap up the interview.

Since she's high-power, you can make more statements which don't need a reply

John: Let me know if you have any questions.

John Freeman, Kavalier and Power Duck have reacted to this post.

#3 · October 23, 2023, 12:19 am

Quote from Kavalier on October 23, 2023, 12:19 am
Hello, John.
Here I think you failed to power protect her. I believe there was a lot going on:
From the point of view of the mother
Since she's a chief nurse, it's expected that she already knows this stuff, so it was disempowering
Aggravating factor 1: when someone is expected to know by virtue of her profession
Aggravating factor 2: when you do it in front of someone else.
Aggravating factor 3: this someone else is in the same profession.
Aggravating factor 4: the disempowered head nurse is above the nurse your colleague in their professional hierarchy
If the hadn't reempowered herself in front of the nurse your colleague, she'd have lost even more power. Even if they don't work together in the same hospital, there's still an informal hierarchy going on here. So the mother had twice as much incentive to show who's boss
From the point of view of the nurse your colleague:
It was also disempowering to her because it probably felt like an attack on the profession, as if you assumed nurses depended on doctors for advice. Now you are not different categories of professionals collaborating on a common goal, but doctors above nurses.
Double power move on all nurses, because you did that to a head nurse
Aggravating factor (if they're feminists): it's a man power moving women
So what I believe happened is that the mother had many incentives (in fact she was under preasure) for power moving back. At the same time, the nurse your colleague felt vindicated. By failing to power protect, you triggered a spirit of solidarity between the two nurses against the "external enemy".
For power protecting, I suggest:
Me: well, X, you surely know this stuff better than I do, but I have to follow the hospital's protocol: do you have any questions (laugh to take the edge off)?
For damage control, I suggest:
John: do you have questions?
Her: Hahahaha
Nurse (present in the room): "makes a hand gesture with open hand like a karateka hitting a brick meaning that she broke me" (as we say in French).
John: hahahaha (laughs along). Sorry, force of habit. Feel free to call me if you need anything
Now, if you didn't know she was a head nurse beforehand, it would have been impossible for you to know these dynamics. I this case she would have been the one in the wrong. I suggest surfacing:
John: do you have questions?
Her: Hahahaha
Nurse (present in the room): "makes a hand gesture with open hand like a karateka hitting a brick meaning that she broke me" (as we say in French).
John: Pardon (serious tone)?
If she explains that she's a nurse, you still have to mind the complex dynamics I described above and avoid further pissing the nurses. You might tell her:
John: Oh, so you're also into healthcare! (Tone: as if you were suddenly happy to recognize in her a fellow professional. This frames you three as being in the same team. This also communicates that you didn't know without having to verbalize it, and there's no need to apologize nor explain yourself. So just change the subject or end the conversation). All right, feel free to call me if you need anything)
If she doesn't explain her laugh, or says "nevermind", just ignore her and continue your business. You're already power up by force of your position and not engaging frames you as above pettiness.

Hello, John.

Here I think you failed to power protect her. I believe there was a lot going on:

From the point of view of the mother
- Since she's a chief nurse, it's expected that she already knows this stuff, so it was disempowering
  - Aggravating factor 1: when someone is expected to know by virtue of her profession
  - Aggravating factor 2: when you do it in front of someone else.
  - Aggravating factor 3: this someone else is in the same profession.
  - Aggravating factor 4: the disempowered head nurse is above the nurse your colleague in their professional hierarchy
- If the hadn't reempowered herself in front of the nurse your colleague, she'd have lost even more power. Even if they don't work together in the same hospital, there's still an informal hierarchy going on here. So the mother had twice as much incentive to show who's boss
From the point of view of the nurse your colleague:
- It was also disempowering to her because it probably felt like an attack on the profession, as if you assumed nurses depended on doctors for advice. Now you are not different categories of professionals collaborating on a common goal, but doctors above nurses.
  - Double power move on all nurses, because you did that to a head nurse
Aggravating factor (if they're feminists): it's a man power moving women

So what I believe happened is that the mother had many incentives (in fact she was under preasure) for power moving back. At the same time, the nurse your colleague felt vindicated. By failing to power protect, you triggered a spirit of solidarity between the two nurses against the "external enemy".

For power protecting, I suggest:

Me: well, X, you surely know this stuff better than I do, but I have to follow the hospital's protocol: do you have any questions (laugh to take the edge off)?

For damage control, I suggest:

John: do you have questions?
Her: Hahahaha
Nurse (present in the room): "makes a hand gesture with open hand like a karateka hitting a brick meaning that she broke me" (as we say in French).
John: hahahaha (laughs along). Sorry, force of habit. Feel free to call me if you need anything

Now, if you didn't know she was a head nurse beforehand, it would have been impossible for you to know these dynamics. I this case she would have been the one in the wrong. I suggest surfacing:

John: do you have questions?
Her: Hahahaha
Nurse (present in the room): "makes a hand gesture with open hand like a karateka hitting a brick meaning that she broke me" (as we say in French).
John: Pardon (serious tone)?

If she explains that she's a nurse, you still have to mind the complex dynamics I described above and avoid further pissing the nurses. You might tell her:

John: Oh, so you're also into healthcare! (Tone: as if you were suddenly happy to recognize in her a fellow professional. This frames you three as being in the same team. This also communicates that you didn't know without having to verbalize it, and there's no need to apologize nor explain yourself. So just change the subject or end the conversation). All right, feel free to call me if you need anything)

If she doesn't explain her laugh, or says "nevermind", just ignore her and continue your business. You're already power up by force of your position and not engaging frames you as above pettiness.

Lucio Buffalmano, Matthew Whitewood and 2 other users have reacted to this post.

#4 · October 24, 2023, 9:37 am

Quote from John Freeman on October 24, 2023, 9:37 am
Hello Kavalier,
thank you very much for your answer! My apologies for the delay. I do my best to answer in less than 24 hours. I'll do better next time.
Boom I think your post is 100% on point!
Quote from Kavalier on October 23, 2023, 12:19 am
Hello, John.
Here I think you failed to power protect her. I believe there was a lot going on:
From the point of view of the mother
Since she's a chief nurse, it's expected that she already knows this stuff, so it was disempowering
Aggravating factor 1: when someone is expected to know by virtue of her profession
Aggravating factor 2: when you do it in front of someone else.
Aggravating factor 3: this someone else is in the same profession.
Aggravating factor 4: the disempowered head nurse is above the nurse your colleague in their professional hierarchy
If the hadn't reempowered herself in front of the nurse your colleague, she'd have lost even more power. Even if they don't work together in the same hospital, there's still an informal hierarchy going on here. So the mother had twice as much incentive to show who's boss
You're 100% right. These consults are usually private in the office. But here at the hospital the nurse "had the right" to be there. It was just eavesdropping actually but I could not have said that it would be better if private. I was also naive in the sense that when I go to the doctor, apart of the knowledge I have I am a patient. I make their lives easy, I follow what they say. I might ask questions that would not be the usual questions but I don't question their authority.
So yeah the presence of the nurse changed everything as she had to look good. Her professional image counted more than I thought. Nurses have a high pride in their profession.
From the point of view of the nurse your colleague:
It was also disempowering to her because it probably felt like an attack on the profession, as if you assumed nurses depended on doctors for advice. Now you are not different categories of professionals collaborating on a common goal, but doctors above nurses.
Double power move on all nurses, because you did that to a head nurse
Aggravating factor (if they're feminists): it's a man power moving women
Here again you're totally right I think. Again I was naive as for me I was a pediatrician giving advice to a parent. I did not have an arrogant attitude but the dynamics was enough to trigger her.
So what I believe happened is that the mother had many incentives (in fact she was under preasure) for power moving back. At the same time, the nurse your colleague felt vindicated. By failing to power protect, you triggered a spirit of solidarity between the two nurses against the "external enemy".
Totally. To me this is petty but it is what it is. Especially this nurse who was there is criticizing our decisions on a daily basis. Even after we and my boss took 30 min to explain to her everything. So yeah she's one of these nurses who is "against doctors". I noticed she has an inferiority complex. So this is a common dynamics. People who feel inferior to you for some reason will attack you. So the nurse doing the hand gesture was piling on her attack. I do admit that I lost respect for her doing that. Also as I said we took 30 min to talk about her concerns about decision-making and communication: me + her, us + her, him + her. So we invested a lot. The next day she had the exact same criticism to my colleagues. So she's the "grumpy" power player.
For power protecting, I suggest:
Me: well, X, you surely know this stuff better than I do, but I have to follow the hospital's protocol: do you have any questions (laugh to take the edge off)?
Yeah, right.
For damage control, I suggest:
John: do you have questions?
Her: Hahahaha
Nurse (present in the room): "makes a hand gesture with open hand like a karateka hitting a brick meaning that she broke me" (as we say in French).
John: hahahaha (laughs along). Sorry, force of habit. Feel free to call me if you need anything
Now, if you didn't know she was a head nurse beforehand, it would have been impossible for you to know these dynamics. I this case she would have been the one in the wrong. I suggest surfacing:
I knew she was a head nurse. I underestimated how much it would play in the dynamics.
John: do you have questions?
Her: Hahahaha
Nurse (present in the room): "makes a hand gesture with open hand like a karateka hitting a brick meaning that she broke me" (as we say in French).
John: Pardon (serious tone)?
If she explains that she's a nurse, you still have to mind the complex dynamics I described above and avoid further pissing the nurses. You might tell her:
John: Oh, so you're also into healthcare! (Tone: as if you were suddenly happy to recognize in her a fellow professional. This frames you three as being in the same team. This also communicates that you didn't know without having to verbalize it, and there's no need to apologize nor explain yourself. So just change the subject or end the conversation). All right, feel free to call me if you need anything)
If she doesn't explain her laugh, or says "nevermind", just ignore her and continue your business. You're already power up by force of your position and not engaging frames you as above pettiness.
It would definitely apply in the case I did not know she was a head nurse. I used this information to contextualize the advice I was giving.
But yeah she was on the defensive from the start. And the other nurse did not help.
All in all, thank you very much! You helped me to open my eyes on dynamics I missed.

Hello Kavalier,

thank you very much for your answer! My apologies for the delay. I do my best to answer in less than 24 hours. I'll do better next time.

Boom I think your post is 100% on point!

Quote from Kavalier on October 23, 2023, 12:19 am
Hello, John.
Here I think you failed to power protect her. I believe there was a lot going on:
From the point of view of the mother
Since she's a chief nurse, it's expected that she already knows this stuff, so it was disempowering
Aggravating factor 1: when someone is expected to know by virtue of her profession
Aggravating factor 2: when you do it in front of someone else.
Aggravating factor 3: this someone else is in the same profession.
Aggravating factor 4: the disempowered head nurse is above the nurse your colleague in their professional hierarchy
If the hadn't reempowered herself in front of the nurse your colleague, she'd have lost even more power. Even if they don't work together in the same hospital, there's still an informal hierarchy going on here. So the mother had twice as much incentive to show who's boss

You're 100% right. These consults are usually private in the office. But here at the hospital the nurse "had the right" to be there. It was just eavesdropping actually but I could not have said that it would be better if private. I was also naive in the sense that when I go to the doctor, apart of the knowledge I have I am a patient. I make their lives easy, I follow what they say. I might ask questions that would not be the usual questions but I don't question their authority.

So yeah the presence of the nurse changed everything as she had to look good. Her professional image counted more than I thought. Nurses have a high pride in their profession.

From the point of view of the nurse your colleague:
It was also disempowering to her because it probably felt like an attack on the profession, as if you assumed nurses depended on doctors for advice. Now you are not different categories of professionals collaborating on a common goal, but doctors above nurses.
Double power move on all nurses, because you did that to a head nurse
Aggravating factor (if they're feminists): it's a man power moving women

Here again you're totally right I think. Again I was naive as for me I was a pediatrician giving advice to a parent. I did not have an arrogant attitude but the dynamics was enough to trigger her.

So what I believe happened is that the mother had many incentives (in fact she was under preasure) for power moving back. At the same time, the nurse your colleague felt vindicated. By failing to power protect, you triggered a spirit of solidarity between the two nurses against the "external enemy".

Totally. To me this is petty but it is what it is. Especially this nurse who was there is criticizing our decisions on a daily basis. Even after we and my boss took 30 min to explain to her everything. So yeah she's one of these nurses who is "against doctors". I noticed she has an inferiority complex. So this is a common dynamics. People who feel inferior to you for some reason will attack you. So the nurse doing the hand gesture was piling on her attack. I do admit that I lost respect for her doing that. Also as I said we took 30 min to talk about her concerns about decision-making and communication: me + her, us + her, him + her. So we invested a lot. The next day she had the exact same criticism to my colleagues. So she's the "grumpy" power player.

For power protecting, I suggest:
Me: well, X, you surely know this stuff better than I do, but I have to follow the hospital's protocol: do you have any questions (laugh to take the edge off)?

Yeah, right.

For damage control, I suggest:
John: do you have questions?
Her: Hahahaha
Nurse (present in the room): "makes a hand gesture with open hand like a karateka hitting a brick meaning that she broke me" (as we say in French).
John: hahahaha (laughs along). Sorry, force of habit. Feel free to call me if you need anything
Now, if you didn't know she was a head nurse beforehand, it would have been impossible for you to know these dynamics. I this case she would have been the one in the wrong. I suggest surfacing:

I knew she was a head nurse. I underestimated how much it would play in the dynamics.

John: do you have questions?
Her: Hahahaha
Nurse (present in the room): "makes a hand gesture with open hand like a karateka hitting a brick meaning that she broke me" (as we say in French).
John: Pardon (serious tone)?
If she explains that she's a nurse, you still have to mind the complex dynamics I described above and avoid further pissing the nurses. You might tell her:
John: Oh, so you're also into healthcare! (Tone: as if you were suddenly happy to recognize in her a fellow professional. This frames you three as being in the same team. This also communicates that you didn't know without having to verbalize it, and there's no need to apologize nor explain yourself. So just change the subject or end the conversation). All right, feel free to call me if you need anything)
If she doesn't explain her laugh, or says "nevermind", just ignore her and continue your business. You're already power up by force of your position and not engaging frames you as above pettiness.

It would definitely apply in the case I did not know she was a head nurse. I used this information to contextualize the advice I was giving.

But yeah she was on the defensive from the start. And the other nurse did not help.

All in all, thank you very much! You helped me to open my eyes on dynamics I missed.

Kavalier has reacted to this post.

#5 · October 24, 2023, 4:59 pm

Thank you for the feedback, John! I'm glad my answer was useful! I appreciate your gesture of trying to answer fast. Feel free to take your time!

By the way, I agree with you, the nurses' behaviour was also not at all eagle-like. There were better ways for them to rebalance.

John Freeman and B have reacted to this post.

#6 · October 24, 2023, 6:15 pm

Thanks man!

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