ForumPublic Forum: Business / Work / CareerWorkIntentional forgetting, delaying …

Please or Register to create posts and topics.

Intentional forgetting, delaying and faking not receiving e-mails and phone calls; "I'm sorry" power move

#1 · November 15, 2021, 1:04 pm

Quote from Bel on November 15, 2021, 1:04 pm
In the last year I have been reevaluating my life, and found out that I was allowing many people to disrespect and dominate me. This is a story of how one of these people turned on me, maybe because she sensed my behavior had changed and I was slipping out of control. I am a civil lawyer; she is a criminal lawyer.

How it begins

I am contacted by this colleague of mine, a lawyer older and more experienced than me, whom I have known for three years and think is my friend. She asks me if I can evaluate the feasibility of a civil appeal in a case a fellow lawyer of hers has litigated in first degree. I will not be signing the appeal, which her colleague will sign, but I will be paid for my work. I try to negotiate my fee, but then ultimately agree on the amount she proposes, which is not market-value but is ok for me, considering that the client was not mine.

I study the documents and tell her that an appeal makes sense. I send her an email anticipating two months of work, and specifying that several documents from the first degree of the case are missing, and that I will need them to prepare the appeal. The client gives the go-ahead, and she tells me to proceed. We agree that I will give her my draft two weeks in advance of the filing deadline, so that both her colleague and the client will be able to read and comment.

I send her an email specifying which documents are missing. I receive no response, and send her a whatsapp message days later, asking if the client has forwarded her the missing documents. This was just before the peak of summer.

She starts "forgetting" and "not receiving" my e-mails

She answers on whatsapp by saying:

Her: "Hi, I wanted to call you yesterday but I forgot. The client is not going to send us documents until September. I will call you soon :-)".

I immediately feel something is off, but ultimately decide to just ignore. She, of course, does not call me.

Summer goes by, and she finally calls and asks me:

Her: "Are there any more documents that you may need for the appeal?".

I answer that yes, as she knows I sent her an email one month ago specifying which documents I still need. She then tells me:

Her: "I am really sorry, I missed this email, can you resend it to me".

I resend the email. Days later she sends me some of the documents I requested, but not all of them. She tells me she will send me the other documents as soon as she receives them from the client.

I start working. Fortunately the missing documents are not material to the case, and I am able to work on the appeal as if I had everything I had requested.

Three days before my deadline, as I am finishing the work, she sends me an email with the remaining documents, saying the following:

Her: "Hi, the client sent me these documents some days ago, but I missed them, sorry."

After I receive the above e-mail, she also immediately calls me on the phone. She restates she is sorry for the delay, and asks if I will be able to finish in time nonetheless. I answer:

Me: "Yes, I will finish as promised".

After we hang up, I slowly start realizing that she has intentionally delayed sending me these documents.

I also start taking note of another interesting duality: when I send her something, she always has some problems with the receipt or "forgets" to read it; on the other hand, everytime she sends me something by email, she immediately whatsapps me to tell me "I sent you an email" and then also immediately calls me to specify that she has just sent me an e-mail.

I send her the appeal draft in time as promised, via e-mail. This time I also whatsapp her to say "I sent you the draft". Two hours later, she calls me on the phone:

Her: "I'm sorry, I probably deleted your e-mail by mistake; could you resend it to me?"

I tell her to look in the folder where deleted emails are stored, she tells me it's not there.

Me: "I am out of office right now; when I go back I will send you the e-mail again".

She tells me "no problem". Later I resend the email and ask for confirmation of receipt by whatsapp. She confirms.

I need help: she does not want to help me, and is angry that I asked; she still wants my help though

Two or three days later, I need help with a criminal case one of my clients has. I try to call her, she does not answer nor call me back. I wait two days and send her a whatsapp telling her I tried to reach her for advice. She tells me to call her. We speak on the phone, she is "sorry" that she did not see my call, and tells me to write her an email with the case because she needs "to do some research to answer". I do so.

One week passes. I decide not to call to solicit her advice, because I want to see how long she will wait to answer; I should specify that I had helped her for free many times in the past.

Suddenly she calls me, and I pick up her call.

Her: "The client for the appeal had some comments on your draft; I will send it to you, and if you can please answer by tomorrow since the deadline for filing is approaching; bye bye".

Before she hangs up, I ask her about my request.

Her: "Thank you for reminding that to me: you can come to my office next week and we can discuss".

At this point, I start asking questions on the phone about my case: she raises her voice with me as if I am bothering her for nothing, and gives me useless, quick and obvious "advice", with a rather angry tone; I thank her and hang up.

I receive her email:

Her: "Dear, Please find attached the appeal with some comments I received from the client and could you please answer by tomorrow. Kind regards and thank you."

I answer the same evening, and decide I am over with her forever.

The end

Some days later, she sends me an email with a draft of summons (the final document to submit the appeal to the other party, which however was outside of my work as I was not signing nor submitting the appeal) and tries to call me on the phone, probably to ask me if it was ok.

I do not answer the call nor the e-mail. My work is over, and I decide I need to immediately request payment of my fees.

Normally, I would have deferred to my colleague as to when and how to issue my invoice. I instead decide to send her my invoice immediately, in her name. I send her the following e-mail:

Me: "Dear, please find attached my invoice for the work done."

No answer. Days pass, and I decide to push more, because I have a feeling she will likely go with "I did not receive your email" if I don't.

So I send her a certified letter, again enclosing my invoice:

Me: "Dear, I fear that you may still have problems with your email, as you mentioned to me in these past weeks. I thus hope to be helping you by sending you here again my invoice. May you please kindly arrange for payment promptly."

She immediately tries to call me, and then sends me a whatsapp message:

Her: "Hi, when could you come to my office? Thank you and good day".

I do not answer, and block her on the phone and on whatsapp for good.

Now I have proof of my work, of the fact that she requested it and of the fact that her client found it useful (she sent me the comments of the client on my work, asking me to respond, and I responded). I have also legal proof that I sent her my payment request, and she has a specific deadline to pay under applicable law. The more she delays answering, the more her delay gives me proof that the fee I requested was the one we had agreed (which it is).

My analysis

She basically faked not receiving my emails three or four times, and continuously disrespected me by implying that her work was more important than me. She intentionally delayed providing me documents for work I was doing for her! She was basically disrespecting me all the time.

I initially thought that she really forgot or didn't receive my emails. I realized she was manipulating me only as a pattern emerged. Then I was really angry.

The fact that, whenever she sent me something by email, she would also whatsapp me and call me immediately is, to me, proof that she was intentionally manipulating me. She feared that I may do the same, and protected against retaliation by obtaining immediate confirmation of receipt of whatever she sent me.

Of course I am no contact with her forever from now on (apart from what is necessary to recover my fees).

Thank you for reading this story and for any comment you may have.

Bel

In the last year I have been reevaluating my life, and found out that I was allowing many people to disrespect and dominate me. This is a story of how one of these people turned on me, maybe because she sensed my behavior had changed and I was slipping out of control. I am a civil lawyer; she is a criminal lawyer.

How it begins

I am contacted by this colleague of mine, a lawyer older and more experienced than me, whom I have known for three years and think is my friend. She asks me if I can evaluate the feasibility of a civil appeal in a case a fellow lawyer of hers has litigated in first degree. I will not be signing the appeal, which her colleague will sign, but I will be paid for my work. I try to negotiate my fee, but then ultimately agree on the amount she proposes, which is not market-value but is ok for me, considering that the client was not mine.

I study the documents and tell her that an appeal makes sense. I send her an email anticipating two months of work, and specifying that several documents from the first degree of the case are missing, and that I will need them to prepare the appeal. The client gives the go-ahead, and she tells me to proceed. We agree that I will give her my draft two weeks in advance of the filing deadline, so that both her colleague and the client will be able to read and comment.

I send her an email specifying which documents are missing. I receive no response, and send her a whatsapp message days later, asking if the client has forwarded her the missing documents. This was just before the peak of summer.

She starts "forgetting" and "not receiving" my e-mails

She answers on whatsapp by saying:

Her: "Hi, I wanted to call you yesterday but I forgot. The client is not going to send us documents until September. I will call you soon :-)".

I immediately feel something is off, but ultimately decide to just ignore. She, of course, does not call me.

Summer goes by, and she finally calls and asks me:

Her: "Are there any more documents that you may need for the appeal?".

I answer that yes, as she knows I sent her an email one month ago specifying which documents I still need. She then tells me:

Her: "I am really sorry, I missed this email, can you resend it to me".

I resend the email. Days later she sends me some of the documents I requested, but not all of them. She tells me she will send me the other documents as soon as she receives them from the client.

I start working. Fortunately the missing documents are not material to the case, and I am able to work on the appeal as if I had everything I had requested.

Three days before my deadline, as I am finishing the work, she sends me an email with the remaining documents, saying the following:

Her: "Hi, the client sent me these documents some days ago, but I missed them, sorry."

After I receive the above e-mail, she also immediately calls me on the phone. She restates she is sorry for the delay, and asks if I will be able to finish in time nonetheless. I answer:

Me: "Yes, I will finish as promised".

After we hang up, I slowly start realizing that she has intentionally delayed sending me these documents.

I also start taking note of another interesting duality: when I send her something, she always has some problems with the receipt or "forgets" to read it; on the other hand, everytime she sends me something by email, she immediately whatsapps me to tell me "I sent you an email" and then also immediately calls me to specify that she has just sent me an e-mail.

I send her the appeal draft in time as promised, via e-mail. This time I also whatsapp her to say "I sent you the draft". Two hours later, she calls me on the phone:

Her: "I'm sorry, I probably deleted your e-mail by mistake; could you resend it to me?"

I tell her to look in the folder where deleted emails are stored, she tells me it's not there.

Me: "I am out of office right now; when I go back I will send you the e-mail again".

She tells me "no problem". Later I resend the email and ask for confirmation of receipt by whatsapp. She confirms.

I need help: she does not want to help me, and is angry that I asked; she still wants my help though

Two or three days later, I need help with a criminal case one of my clients has. I try to call her, she does not answer nor call me back. I wait two days and send her a whatsapp telling her I tried to reach her for advice. She tells me to call her. We speak on the phone, she is "sorry" that she did not see my call, and tells me to write her an email with the case because she needs "to do some research to answer". I do so.

One week passes. I decide not to call to solicit her advice, because I want to see how long she will wait to answer; I should specify that I had helped her for free many times in the past.

Suddenly she calls me, and I pick up her call.

Her: "The client for the appeal had some comments on your draft; I will send it to you, and if you can please answer by tomorrow since the deadline for filing is approaching; bye bye".

Before she hangs up, I ask her about my request.

Her: "Thank you for reminding that to me: you can come to my office next week and we can discuss".

At this point, I start asking questions on the phone about my case: she raises her voice with me as if I am bothering her for nothing, and gives me useless, quick and obvious "advice", with a rather angry tone; I thank her and hang up.

I receive her email:

Her: "Dear, Please find attached the appeal with some comments I received from the client and could you please answer by tomorrow. Kind regards and thank you."

I answer the same evening, and decide I am over with her forever.

The end

Some days later, she sends me an email with a draft of summons (the final document to submit the appeal to the other party, which however was outside of my work as I was not signing nor submitting the appeal) and tries to call me on the phone, probably to ask me if it was ok.

I do not answer the call nor the e-mail. My work is over, and I decide I need to immediately request payment of my fees.

Normally, I would have deferred to my colleague as to when and how to issue my invoice. I instead decide to send her my invoice immediately, in her name. I send her the following e-mail:

Me: "Dear, please find attached my invoice for the work done."

No answer. Days pass, and I decide to push more, because I have a feeling she will likely go with "I did not receive your email" if I don't.

So I send her a certified letter, again enclosing my invoice:

Me: "Dear, I fear that you may still have problems with your email, as you mentioned to me in these past weeks. I thus hope to be helping you by sending you here again my invoice. May you please kindly arrange for payment promptly."

She immediately tries to call me, and then sends me a whatsapp message:

Her: "Hi, when could you come to my office? Thank you and good day".

I do not answer, and block her on the phone and on whatsapp for good.

Now I have proof of my work, of the fact that she requested it and of the fact that her client found it useful (she sent me the comments of the client on my work, asking me to respond, and I responded). I have also legal proof that I sent her my payment request, and she has a specific deadline to pay under applicable law. The more she delays answering, the more her delay gives me proof that the fee I requested was the one we had agreed (which it is).

My analysis

She basically faked not receiving my emails three or four times, and continuously disrespected me by implying that her work was more important than me. She intentionally delayed providing me documents for work I was doing for her! She was basically disrespecting me all the time.

I initially thought that she really forgot or didn't receive my emails. I realized she was manipulating me only as a pattern emerged. Then I was really angry.

The fact that, whenever she sent me something by email, she would also whatsapp me and call me immediately is, to me, proof that she was intentionally manipulating me. She feared that I may do the same, and protected against retaliation by obtaining immediate confirmation of receipt of whatever she sent me.

Of course I am no contact with her forever from now on (apart from what is necessary to recover my fees).

Thank you for reading this story and for any comment you may have.

Bel

#2 · November 15, 2021, 1:41 pm

Bel,

I do see several (disempowering) power moves in there.
And I sense a relationship where she was lying and manipulating, trying to over-use you and underpay you (a taker).

One thing is not clear to me though: why would she purposefully delay sending you her customer's documents?

Isn't it in her best interest that you have everything you need so that you can do the best job you can, and that looks good on her?

Strategy going forward: a secret enemy is better than an open enemy

Personally, I'd try to avoid suing or threatening as much as possible.

This is because that might turn her into an enemy that actively tries to damage you or actively and surreptitiously seeks to undermine your reputation.

If instead you recover the fees with "normal" pressure like lots of calls and texts, then you will still cut her off and.
And if you see her, you will also pretend you're still friendly -just slightly distant maybe, and refuse all her offers with an air of superiority, saying you're too busy, which is much better revenge -.

The effect is the same, but this option is much better for you.

The reason is that a manipulative bitch you "pretend to be OK with" but actively avoid for the rest of your life is much better than an open enemy.
Feel free to swap "bitch" for assholes for men, as it's obviously the same.

The former is less harmful but also leaves a door open for... Who knows what.
She may contact you again in the future, and by then the power dynamics might be so different that you can do something with her that is good for you.

Transitioned and Bel have reacted to this post.

Check the forum guidelines for effective communication.
---
(Book a call) for personalized & private feedback

#3 · November 15, 2021, 2:03 pm

Quote from Bel on November 15, 2021, 2:03 pm
Thank you for your answer Lucio, I appreciate very much your perspective and help.

One thing is not clear to me though: why would she purposefully delay sending you her customer's documents?

Isn't it in her best interest that you have everything you need so that you can do the best job you can, and that looks good on her?

I agree, this is crazy to me. However, this is a situation I found myself in many times in the past: someone asks for my help and then tries to make me giving this help more difficult.

My guesses are:

this increases plausible deniability and hides the manipulations better. It is more difficult to accuse someone of lying or of intentionally backstabbing you if it is against his or her own interests to do so;

maybe she had a second option, meaning her fellow lawyer could have picked up on my work and concluded it if I were not able to finish it;

maybe she wanted to punish both me AND her fellow lawyer, and the worst outcome (i.e. my work not being done in time) was acceptable to her. She could have said to her fellow lawyer that I was responsible. The final client, in fact, was not hers, but of her fellow lawyer.

Personally, I'd try to avoid suing or threatening as much as possible.

This is because that might turn her into an enemy that actively tries to damage you or actively and surreptitiously seeks to undermine your reputation.

If instead you recover the fees with "normal" pressure like lots of calls and texts, then you will still cut her off and.

I agree with you that this would be the best course of action. However, I have some problems with this approach at my current stage:

I am angry with her. I am not sure I can fake being friendly with her on the phone, with messages, etc., and that I will not explode and turn her into an open enemy anyways.

She may use the opportunity to disrespect and abuse me more. She may not answer my calls, my messages, she may still delay and not pay, and ultimately force me to threaten suing her. She has already implied that she wants to talk in person, probably to manipulate me more and leave no trace of what she intends to do/say. I am very tired of being emotionally abused by many many people.

Unblocking her on the phone means she may also try to contact me and ask me things. As I see it, I did the work and now I must be paid. She is subverting the law of reciprocity here.

To be able to follow your suggestion, I would have to wait some time, gain more personal power and get in a better emotional shape, because right now I feel I would not be capable of acting "fake friendly". She was just too disrespectful.

Maybe for now I could slowly escalate pressure via e-mail, e.g. I could send her an e-mail every two weeks just soliciting payment. And in the future I may reach a point where I do not care and can unblock her.

I must add that this is a problem I have with many many people. I just recently discovered I was being manipulated by lots of people, and my solution was to go no contact with almost all of them. I understand that this is not optimal, but I was just in a very bad shape emotionally and would not have been able to deal with the pushback of slowly asserting myself with everyone.

Thank you for your answer Lucio, I appreciate very much your perspective and help.

One thing is not clear to me though: why would she purposefully delay sending you her customer's documents?

Isn't it in her best interest that you have everything you need so that you can do the best job you can, and that looks good on her?

I agree, this is crazy to me. However, this is a situation I found myself in many times in the past: someone asks for my help and then tries to make me giving this help more difficult.

My guesses are:

this increases plausible deniability and hides the manipulations better. It is more difficult to accuse someone of lying or of intentionally backstabbing you if it is against his or her own interests to do so;
maybe she had a second option, meaning her fellow lawyer could have picked up on my work and concluded it if I were not able to finish it;
maybe she wanted to punish both me AND her fellow lawyer, and the worst outcome (i.e. my work not being done in time) was acceptable to her. She could have said to her fellow lawyer that I was responsible. The final client, in fact, was not hers, but of her fellow lawyer.

Personally, I'd try to avoid suing or threatening as much as possible.

This is because that might turn her into an enemy that actively tries to damage you or actively and surreptitiously seeks to undermine your reputation.

If instead you recover the fees with "normal" pressure like lots of calls and texts, then you will still cut her off and.

I agree with you that this would be the best course of action. However, I have some problems with this approach at my current stage:

I am angry with her. I am not sure I can fake being friendly with her on the phone, with messages, etc., and that I will not explode and turn her into an open enemy anyways.
She may use the opportunity to disrespect and abuse me more. She may not answer my calls, my messages, she may still delay and not pay, and ultimately force me to threaten suing her. She has already implied that she wants to talk in person, probably to manipulate me more and leave no trace of what she intends to do/say. I am very tired of being emotionally abused by many many people.
Unblocking her on the phone means she may also try to contact me and ask me things. As I see it, I did the work and now I must be paid. She is subverting the law of reciprocity here.

To be able to follow your suggestion, I would have to wait some time, gain more personal power and get in a better emotional shape, because right now I feel I would not be capable of acting "fake friendly". She was just too disrespectful.

Maybe for now I could slowly escalate pressure via e-mail, e.g. I could send her an e-mail every two weeks just soliciting payment. And in the future I may reach a point where I do not care and can unblock her.

I must add that this is a problem I have with many many people. I just recently discovered I was being manipulated by lots of people, and my solution was to go no contact with almost all of them. I understand that this is not optimal, but I was just in a very bad shape emotionally and would not have been able to deal with the pushback of slowly asserting myself with everyone.

Matthew Whitewood has reacted to this post.

#4 · November 15, 2021, 4:47 pm

Do you think

It will be helpful to find out the contact of the client of this woman you are helping?
It will be possible to find out the contact of this client?

Thinking whether you could steal the client from her.

Transitioned has reacted to this post.

#5 · November 15, 2021, 5:03 pm

Hi Matthew,

thanks for your message.

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on November 15, 2021, 4:47 pm

Do you think

It will be helpful to find out the contact of the client of this woman you are helping?

I don't really want to. My main objective was originally just to get paid and avoid her forever. However, I agree that I should probably get over my pride and unblock her, and try to push for payment in less obvious ways than what I was originally thinking.

Heck, I have just unblocked her now, and I'll keep you updated how this develops. I think for now I'll just wait to see if she contacts me and in that case I will kindly refuse whatever she asks of me and push for payment. If not, I will send her another email or whatsapp in the near future.

Still, I am really at a loss as to how I could have handled it better. I think the problem arose from my behavior before this episode. She just assumed I was naive and submissive and was going to accept everything. I don't know how I could have handled the above in a better way when this specific episode started.

#6 · November 16, 2021, 12:13 am

I have to do a lot of vendor management. They have a lot of unsavoury tricks and manipulations they use to get the better of the deal.

I always have a ways of working together meeting. And send them a written copy afterwards. And put it into the financials contract.

I'm sure your local bar association or small business council has plenty of standard upfront how we are going to engage and charge type documents.

Another way is you have a set priced offering to do some initial work. Basically a discovery and recommendation piece.

Or you have a pay-as-you-go agreement and you build them for hours used every month and in that agreement you say that all the materials have to be available and I need a minimum of 3 days lead time.

I'm also guessing there's probably a lot of cheap billing apps these days will do the nagging for you automatically

That might help set a professional tone and some boundaries and remove some of the deniability and smokescreen upfront. Different industry to mine and the law has strong culture so I will be interested in your thoughts

Lucio Buffalmano, Ali Scarlett and 2 other users have reacted to this post.

#7 · November 16, 2021, 1:30 pm

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on November 16, 2021, 1:30 pm

Quote from Bel on November 15, 2021, 2:03 pm

I agree with you that this would be the best course of action.

However, I have some problems with this approach at my current stage:

Yeah, all you say makes sense.

And at your stage indeed, it might be the way to go.

You can see your solution as the lion who wakes up after having been poked around and says "enough", and ends it on a high.

Still, this more Machiavellian approach can also give you the anger release you want.
It's just more spread out -and it might end up adding to a whole lot more-.

Some notes:

Quote from Bel on November 15, 2021, 2:03 pm

I am angry with her

Consider this comparison:

A man gets friend-zoned and/or it doesn't get what he wanted.
So he starts cursing her.

He feels good -he "showed her".

Another guy says "of course we can be friends".
But he never contacts her -not even for that friendship-.

He keeps working on himself, becomes more awesome, richer, higher-power, and smoother.
When he meets her again and she'd be willing to date, he says "hey, how are you! Yeah, we should totally catch up one day". Again, he never takes any action. If she does, he delays replying or says he's busy.

See where I'm going?

Quote from Bel on November 15, 2021, 2:03 pm

She may use the opportunity to disrespect and abuse me more.
She may not answer my calls, my messages, (...) she has already implied that she wants to talk in person

I only partially agree here.

She may avoid replying, yes.
That would disempower you, true.
But it would also surface more and more what a bad person she is.

And when it comes to manipulation, you're far more power-aware now.

If anything, you may learn more about her and about her personality type.

And if she says to go to her -and obvious power move- you'd say "we'll catch up in person eventually, but I'm busy these days, can you please settle the bill first".

Quote from Bel on November 15, 2021, 2:03 pm

Unblocking her on the phone means she may also try to contact me and ask me things.

Great.

That's your opportunity to snub her.

Even more Machiavellian:

imply or lead her on you will help... But first, she needs to pay.
Then, when she asks for help, a new high-priority project comes up for you, and you can't help anymore.

And if you actually want the job, you'd say "sure, but this time I need upfront payment as I ain't got time to chase bills".

Finally, you know the situation better, and the final decision is for you to make.

Whatever you choose, it will be a huge step forward anyway.

Quote from Bel on November 15, 2021, 2:03 pm

I agree with you that this would be the best course of action.

However, I have some problems with this approach at my current stage:

Yeah, all you say makes sense.

And at your stage indeed, it might be the way to go.

You can see your solution as the lion who wakes up after having been poked around and says "enough", and ends it on a high.

Still, this more Machiavellian approach can also give you the anger release you want.
It's just more spread out -and it might end up adding to a whole lot more-.

Some notes:

Quote from Bel on November 15, 2021, 2:03 pm

I am angry with her

Consider this comparison:

A man gets friend-zoned and/or it doesn't get what he wanted.
So he starts cursing her.

He feels good -he "showed her".

Another guy says "of course we can be friends".
But he never contacts her -not even for that friendship-.

He keeps working on himself, becomes more awesome, richer, higher-power, and smoother.
When he meets her again and she'd be willing to date, he says "hey, how are you! Yeah, we should totally catch up one day". Again, he never takes any action. If she does, he delays replying or says he's busy.

See where I'm going?

Quote from Bel on November 15, 2021, 2:03 pm

She may use the opportunity to disrespect and abuse me more.
She may not answer my calls, my messages, (...) she has already implied that she wants to talk in person

I only partially agree here.

She may avoid replying, yes.
That would disempower you, true.
But it would also surface more and more what a bad person she is.

And when it comes to manipulation, you're far more power-aware now.

If anything, you may learn more about her and about her personality type.

And if she says to go to her -and obvious power move- you'd say "we'll catch up in person eventually, but I'm busy these days, can you please settle the bill first".

Quote from Bel on November 15, 2021, 2:03 pm

Unblocking her on the phone means she may also try to contact me and ask me things.

Great.

That's your opportunity to snub her.

Even more Machiavellian:

imply or lead her on you will help... But first, she needs to pay.
Then, when she asks for help, a new high-priority project comes up for you, and you can't help anymore.

And if you actually want the job, you'd say "sure, but this time I need upfront payment as I ain't got time to chase bills".

Finally, you know the situation better, and the final decision is for you to make.

Whatever you choose, it will be a huge step forward anyway.

Bel has reacted to this post.

Check the forum guidelines for effective communication.
---
(Book a call) for personalized & private feedback

#8 · November 16, 2021, 2:14 pm

Quote from Transitioned on November 16, 2021, 12:13 am

Or you have a pay-as-you-go agreement and you build them for hours used every month and in that agreement you say that all the materials have to be available and I need a minimum of 3 days lead time.

I'm also guessing there's probably a lot of cheap billing apps these days will do the nagging for you automatically

Thank you Transitioned, this makes a lot of sense, and I see something I could implement in my profession, for example always sending an e-mail with confirmation of the conditions of the work, and specifying that documents must be provided to me with sufficient advance time.

In general, the legal field tends to limit the aggressiveness of procedures for debt collection, and also to restrict the kind of tones that lawyers can use with clients to only formal and polite tones. But for sure confirmation of the conditions of work is admissible, and I used it many times with clients that were not colleagues.

It's just that, in my mind, she had no interest in putting obstacles, because she was a colleague and the work was done in her interest. But lesson learned.

Thank you

#9 · November 16, 2021, 2:17 pm

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on November 16, 2021, 1:30 pm

And if she says to go to her -and obvious power move- you'd say "we'll catch up in person eventually, but I'm busy these days, can you please settle the bill first".

...

imply or lead her on you will help... But first, she needs to pay.
Then, when she asks for help, a new high-priority project comes up for you, and you can't help anymore.

And if you actually want the job, you'd say "sure, but this time I need upfront payment as I ain't got time to chase bills".

Finally, you know the situation better, and the final decision is for you to make.

Whatever you choose, it will be a huge step forward anyway.

Thank you Lucio, your suggestions are golden. I would have never thought about this way of handling it, but it makes much sense. I will try to proceed this way with her, while with another person that also owes me past fees (but this is the topic for another story) I will probably follow the other path.

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.

#10 · November 16, 2021, 3:30 pm

I sent her a variation of the message suggested by Lucio, recovering the thread she started some time ago with her proposal to go to her office: "Hi, unfortunately I've been busy these days but we will certainly meet soon. In the meantime could you please have the invoice settled?"

Even if she does not reply, as Lucio suggests my future escalation will be perceived as more reasonable.

I'll keep you posted how this develops.

EDIT: she just answered with this:

"I hope everything is well with you. Sure, I tried to contact you more than once to ask you if we could see each other. But you should address the invoice to the colleague that must pay it, while you addressed it to me. I will obtain his contacts and send them to you".

The tone seems to have changed, we'll see if she follows up.