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Power dynamics in musical hobbies

#1 · October 16, 2023, 4:59 am

Quote from Emily on October 16, 2023, 4:59 am
I love playing music as a hobby and recently I've found that in this arena there is plenty of power dynamics going on - I've felt uncomfortable about certain scenarios and now I realize why - because I was in a power imbalance (in a less powerful/weaker position). Here are a few examples that I want to share:
Example: Conflict in the band
I sing in a jazz band and generally my regular fellow musicians are pretty accommodating. However, recently I came across this guy who regular plays with another band but drops in to our thing because our own keyboardist is too busy. It is by nature that singers are restrained by their vocal ranges and would call keys that would work the best for them. However, this backup keyboardist (let's call him K) has been fairly reluctant to adapt to my key, refusing to use softwares that assist this process as all other musicians do, and also refused to work with some musical score formats. He insisted that he can only work with the format in the two books that he has. His excuse being that he is not trained to adapt as others do, does not want to look at a screen to use the assistive software as his day job is about facing a screen all day etc. etc. I find it ridiculous because pretty much he is asking me to develop my own scores which would take a lot of time, and only for the sake of him at the moment (developing unique scores could be a great skill to acquire but I haven't dived into that yet, plus the strict format that he requests makes it a bigger challenge). I made a compromise to find some existing scores only in the keys that I would be comfortable with, and asked the host of the regular band practice to ask K directly if he would work with the format. I think even doing this is unfair, but given that I have a good relationship with everyone else in the band, I do want to keep practicing with them, so this is a justifiable compromise. I've decided that if he says anything about not wanting to work with the existing scores that I proposed, then I will avoid playing with him explicitly in the future.
Decision-making in the choir vs. band
I am also in a culturally-focused choir. I found this format intriguing but over time I found it pretty restricting because the conductor has almost absolute power as what to do each season. This is what I found for other choirs too - for example, a conductor in another local choir had experiences in Australia and Canada and her song choices were heavily focused on composers from those two countries. I wasn't too happy about the song choices and proposed something else - but our conductor told me that it is hard to find scores these days. I also have some trouble with the choir because their social activities are chaotic or nonexistent. For example, there is social activity group but the way the propose things is to do online surveys (when we do practice and see each other every week!). Recently I started composing my own songs and I've proposed that the choir consider singing my composition if I can adapt it to a traditional format for the choir. I don't feel good about this because still I am asking for the conductor to judge me, and she can still refuse me. But I am feeling pretty unhappy about this whole arrangement and felt that I had needs of the following:
Musical development (meaning we progress together)
Social bonding (no brainer for hobbies)
Personal influence (we each have right to say what we play and how we play)
Cultural identity (is this relevant to me?)
I feel the choir has not been meeting any of those and why should I waste my time there. Anyway, I was invited to try this out because one of my friends is a core member of the choir and he has a role that nobody else can replace. I feel that he is getting his value out of this while I am not quite happy about it. On a side note, this friend is not really going anywhere in some other aspects of his life due to his personal condition so I feel it is a way for him to gain some power (which is a good thing). The proposal of considering my own composition is that at least I could have some personal influence, but I am not optimistic about it given the history. I found it much better to play in a band since it checks off all of those criteria. So it is likely that I will quit choir pretty soon and focus on playing in our band only.
The side guy
I recently felt that it is important not to be "the side guy/girl", because hell we are in this for the fun only and why should we give power away automatically. I personally felt that the typical "side guy/girl" scenario is being in a jam session and there is a featured opening artist or house band playing before the jam session opens. Of course, for more commercial artists, the opening band/artist (before the main artist) is the "side person" almost always - they are not the star of the concert and used more as a tool in my opinion. Anyway, I don't have personal experience with commercial shows so I'll give an example of local jam events. I tried out a local jam session which goes regularly with a feature artist (usually a graduate from a famous local musical college, sometimes an emerging artist in the scene) and then the host will open it up for random singers (read: amateur, like me) to sign up. I didn't feel comfortable in this situation because it goes against my collaborative nature. The feature artist by this arrangement is "above" all of the other singers. This also goes with a so-called "masterclass" because I think coaching should be private, the stardom goes to the "master" with very little to gain for the student in my opinion. Anyway, I reflected on this and felt much more comfortable not going to jam sessions in the future (as by nature there will be a house band or feature artist of some sort).

I love playing music as a hobby and recently I've found that in this arena there is plenty of power dynamics going on - I've felt uncomfortable about certain scenarios and now I realize why - because I was in a power imbalance (in a less powerful/weaker position). Here are a few examples that I want to share:

Example: Conflict in the band

I sing in a jazz band and generally my regular fellow musicians are pretty accommodating. However, recently I came across this guy who regular plays with another band but drops in to our thing because our own keyboardist is too busy. It is by nature that singers are restrained by their vocal ranges and would call keys that would work the best for them. However, this backup keyboardist (let's call him K) has been fairly reluctant to adapt to my key, refusing to use softwares that assist this process as all other musicians do, and also refused to work with some musical score formats. He insisted that he can only work with the format in the two books that he has. His excuse being that he is not trained to adapt as others do, does not want to look at a screen to use the assistive software as his day job is about facing a screen all day etc. etc. I find it ridiculous because pretty much he is asking me to develop my own scores which would take a lot of time, and only for the sake of him at the moment (developing unique scores could be a great skill to acquire but I haven't dived into that yet, plus the strict format that he requests makes it a bigger challenge). I made a compromise to find some existing scores only in the keys that I would be comfortable with, and asked the host of the regular band practice to ask K directly if he would work with the format. I think even doing this is unfair, but given that I have a good relationship with everyone else in the band, I do want to keep practicing with them, so this is a justifiable compromise. I've decided that if he says anything about not wanting to work with the existing scores that I proposed, then I will avoid playing with him explicitly in the future.

Decision-making in the choir vs. band

I am also in a culturally-focused choir. I found this format intriguing but over time I found it pretty restricting because the conductor has almost absolute power as what to do each season. This is what I found for other choirs too - for example, a conductor in another local choir had experiences in Australia and Canada and her song choices were heavily focused on composers from those two countries. I wasn't too happy about the song choices and proposed something else - but our conductor told me that it is hard to find scores these days. I also have some trouble with the choir because their social activities are chaotic or nonexistent. For example, there is social activity group but the way the propose things is to do online surveys (when we do practice and see each other every week!). Recently I started composing my own songs and I've proposed that the choir consider singing my composition if I can adapt it to a traditional format for the choir. I don't feel good about this because still I am asking for the conductor to judge me, and she can still refuse me. But I am feeling pretty unhappy about this whole arrangement and felt that I had needs of the following:

Musical development (meaning we progress together)
Social bonding (no brainer for hobbies)
Personal influence (we each have right to say what we play and how we play)
Cultural identity (is this relevant to me?)

I feel the choir has not been meeting any of those and why should I waste my time there. Anyway, I was invited to try this out because one of my friends is a core member of the choir and he has a role that nobody else can replace. I feel that he is getting his value out of this while I am not quite happy about it. On a side note, this friend is not really going anywhere in some other aspects of his life due to his personal condition so I feel it is a way for him to gain some power (which is a good thing). The proposal of considering my own composition is that at least I could have some personal influence, but I am not optimistic about it given the history. I found it much better to play in a band since it checks off all of those criteria. So it is likely that I will quit choir pretty soon and focus on playing in our band only.

The side guy

I recently felt that it is important not to be "the side guy/girl", because hell we are in this for the fun only and why should we give power away automatically. I personally felt that the typical "side guy/girl" scenario is being in a jam session and there is a featured opening artist or house band playing before the jam session opens. Of course, for more commercial artists, the opening band/artist (before the main artist) is the "side person" almost always - they are not the star of the concert and used more as a tool in my opinion. Anyway, I don't have personal experience with commercial shows so I'll give an example of local jam events. I tried out a local jam session which goes regularly with a feature artist (usually a graduate from a famous local musical college, sometimes an emerging artist in the scene) and then the host will open it up for random singers (read: amateur, like me) to sign up. I didn't feel comfortable in this situation because it goes against my collaborative nature. The feature artist by this arrangement is "above" all of the other singers. This also goes with a so-called "masterclass" because I think coaching should be private, the stardom goes to the "master" with very little to gain for the student in my opinion. Anyway, I reflected on this and felt much more comfortable not going to jam sessions in the future (as by nature there will be a house band or feature artist of some sort).

Kavalier has reacted to this post.

#2 · October 18, 2023, 8:46 pm

I have a bit more thought on this to caliberate since I learnt about myself. This keyboardist issue was resolved somewhat successfully - the band actually tried out the existing scores and got back to me that it worked well. So now it's up to me to go back and rehearse and see how it goes.

I did feel that sometimes I feel about something very strongly initially since there's conflict and especially when I'm not in the wrong but have to manage the conflict. But when I stick along things would work out eventually - so note to my future self and to distinguish the emotional reality and practical reality.

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#3 · October 29, 2023, 1:08 pm

Quick reply on this as well.

1st Situation on your own Band: If the compromise is okay with you, then that's awesome! Otherwise, maybe you could make friends with other keyboardists. Could potentially tackle the issue of relying on one keyboardist (too busy) and the chance that the keyboardist doesn't gel well.
2st Situation about the Choir: Yeah, if you find playing for your own band more meaningful than the choir, then it does make sense to focus on that.
The Side Guy: Sounds like you enjoy having more influence to shape musical development and also identity of the team. Maybe more recognition as well.

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#4 · October 29, 2023, 11:22 pm

I apologize that it was a lot of text and not organized best for people to view. I was wondering if this topic is simply not relevant, or it was the delivery. Now it's clear it's the latter. I am having trouble finding the edit button to the original post, not sure if this is something I can do. If anyone knows that this is possible please let me know how, I'd be happy to reorganize the original post and sorry about your confusion.

Thank you, Matthew. I think you summarized the scenarios pretty well - it depends on our own preferences. I feel part of the challenge is that I don't know whether general social norms and principles were broken, or because I particularly expect something (like you said, influence and developing together) and got frustrated because those needs were not met while others could be completely OK with it. To be honest, I don't like the idea of being "lead" and commanded in the first place.

To summarize the gists of all these scenarios above (which can be generalized to non-music groups):

Some structures are inherently disempowering than others. In this example an orchestra/choir is more disempowering to a member than a band because there is always a leader and the leader has much more power by default, and one needs to be aware of the situation especially when one has the need to be heard and wants the decision-making to be more democratic;
There will always be people who want to exert their own power at the expense of others (like the keyboardist example, when he doesn't have any understandable reason to do it other than plainly being difficult) and those conflicts need to be addressed effectively

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#5 · October 31, 2023, 1:09 am

Quote from Kavalier on October 31, 2023, 1:09 am
Hello Emily, Matthew
Emily, I had read your thread before and thought it was very interesting. But it also has a lot of technicalities that make it difficult for someone to chip in when they have no expertise in music. I find it easier to reply to threads where there is a micro-intetaction, a brief dialogue to be broken down, also, I didn't immediately identify what was your desirable outcome (I now believe you want more influence in the group).
Still, let me try and address some of these situations:
You're the main singer. From the point of view of the general public, you're the "boss of the band". So no matter if within the band you can't always have things your way, in the broadest scope, you're still power up. Everyone's eyes are always on you and substituting singers approved by the public is a hard decision for the band
If you want to be more influent in fields that are heavy in hard skills (as the musical scene tends to be), then I believe you must be the most proficient of all in the group. Then the question turns to: for you, is it worth the trouble? This level of proficiency seems to require you to go beyond the hobbist level. If this is the way you want to go, it makes sense to prioritize, for example, actually tackling that developing unique scores skill. If you don't feel that is your thing, there's nothing wrong to sit back and not be in control of what happens in the band. Focus on the fun. Don't be afraid to be the side girl. You can be a leader in other areas of your life
K seems to be the value giver in this situation. Your keyboardist can't be present and, despite having another band, K is helping you guys in his free time so that you can keep playing. If he's giving value, it's fair for him to have his way and the band has to adapt accordingly. He also seems to have valid reasons (I don't know if the way he communicated them was disempowering to you. It if were, I feel the transcription is important for us to analyse). Also, his power is situational and short-lived: if most keyboardists would be happy to adapt, it's probable that he can't always push his preference (akin to the plumber that can push his price only when the kitchen is flooded and you're desperate. As soon as you fix the problem, you cross his name out of the list)
You could be as demanding as K and insist that he adapts to your key, using the software if needed. I don't know if that would be the best thing to do. One, because if both of you are restricted by technical limitations, it would be the more sensible thing to do that the person who adapts is the one who has the comparative advantage in adapting (who has the lowest opportunity cost in adapting? You or him?). And even then, adapting is not inherently low power. You can adapt from a higher power position. For example, if you are the more versatile/skilled musician, steping forward to change your key so that you can include the less skilled musician, you're higher power. A value-adding leader who is the first to do whatever is best for her band. So a "no problem, we can adapt to whatever is comfortable for you" is higher power (and if you say this, - not recommended - also a power move). Two, because if you refuse to adapt and the band needs a keyboardist more than you in the moment, you're at risk even if you win this particular showdown. Next thing is the others might start to look for a more versatile and cooperative vocalist.
You can always negotiate. So, if it's not easy for you to do, you can be assertive and say:
K, I understand that it's hard for you to face a screen after a long day of work. But if this is hard for you, it's even harder and time costing to develop new scores from scratch because of X Y Z. Let's do this: only this time, I kindly ask you to use the software, since it's the easiest and most immediate solution. Then as time goes by, you and I focus on finding a solution that distributes equally the burden between you and me, so that nobody will feel overtaxed. What do you think?
By the way, congrats on composing your own songs, Emily! It will be a pleasure to hear you singing one day

Hello Emily, Matthew

Emily, I had read your thread before and thought it was very interesting. But it also has a lot of technicalities that make it difficult for someone to chip in when they have no expertise in music. I find it easier to reply to threads where there is a micro-intetaction, a brief dialogue to be broken down, also, I didn't immediately identify what was your desirable outcome (I now believe you want more influence in the group).

Still, let me try and address some of these situations:

You're the main singer. From the point of view of the general public, you're the "boss of the band". So no matter if within the band you can't always have things your way, in the broadest scope, you're still power up. Everyone's eyes are always on you and substituting singers approved by the public is a hard decision for the band
If you want to be more influent in fields that are heavy in hard skills (as the musical scene tends to be), then I believe you must be the most proficient of all in the group. Then the question turns to: for you, is it worth the trouble? This level of proficiency seems to require you to go beyond the hobbist level. If this is the way you want to go, it makes sense to prioritize, for example, actually tackling that developing unique scores skill. If you don't feel that is your thing, there's nothing wrong to sit back and not be in control of what happens in the band. Focus on the fun. Don't be afraid to be the side girl. You can be a leader in other areas of your life
K seems to be the value giver in this situation. Your keyboardist can't be present and, despite having another band, K is helping you guys in his free time so that you can keep playing. If he's giving value, it's fair for him to have his way and the band has to adapt accordingly. He also seems to have valid reasons (I don't know if the way he communicated them was disempowering to you. It if were, I feel the transcription is important for us to analyse). Also, his power is situational and short-lived: if most keyboardists would be happy to adapt, it's probable that he can't always push his preference (akin to the plumber that can push his price only when the kitchen is flooded and you're desperate. As soon as you fix the problem, you cross his name out of the list)
You could be as demanding as K and insist that he adapts to your key, using the software if needed. I don't know if that would be the best thing to do. One, because if both of you are restricted by technical limitations, it would be the more sensible thing to do that the person who adapts is the one who has the comparative advantage in adapting (who has the lowest opportunity cost in adapting? You or him?). And even then, adapting is not inherently low power. You can adapt from a higher power position. For example, if you are the more versatile/skilled musician, steping forward to change your key so that you can include the less skilled musician, you're higher power. A value-adding leader who is the first to do whatever is best for her band. So a "no problem, we can adapt to whatever is comfortable for you" is higher power (and if you say this, - not recommended - also a power move). Two, because if you refuse to adapt and the band needs a keyboardist more than you in the moment, you're at risk even if you win this particular showdown. Next thing is the others might start to look for a more versatile and cooperative vocalist.
You can always negotiate. So, if it's not easy for you to do, you can be assertive and say:

K, I understand that it's hard for you to face a screen after a long day of work. But if this is hard for you, it's even harder and time costing to develop new scores from scratch because of X Y Z. Let's do this: only this time, I kindly ask you to use the software, since it's the easiest and most immediate solution. Then as time goes by, you and I focus on finding a solution that distributes equally the burden between you and me, so that nobody will feel overtaxed. What do you think?

By the way, congrats on composing your own songs, Emily! It will be a pleasure to hear you singing one day

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.