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Propre who don’t say Hi first: how to deal with them ?

Hi guys,

 

Here’s a question the answer of which, I believe, could solve a doubt most of us have around social skills.

I am Italian but live in Paris, and French Culture is different than the Italian, at least from a social warmth point of view.

I’ve noticed that when I get into clubs ( the gym, the golf club etc) people have a tendency of not saying hi first, even if you already know each other and have already shared a few conversation/ jokes with them.

Now, these same people do say hi when you are actually 1 meter distance from them, but otherwise they often do not.

Guess some of us would call this a power move.

Anyway, this attitude feels super weird to me for In Italy and in most other countries, if you see someone you know and he’s 15 meters from you, you waver or go say hi. Unless you are in a super poshy environment, that is.

My question then is, how do you deal with this kind of attitude  ?

The goal would be to feel welcomed each time I am in a social environment like a club, and to make friends.

So the option ‘ just do not say Hi unless they do it first’ sounds passive aggressive and not exciting to me.

 

A possible option do deal with this 

One way to possibly deal with this is  to go through a weekly trial where you force yourself to go say Hi to all of the people by whom you feel ignored, making it a goal to be warm with them.no matter how poshy or distant they seem.

Then, even if they keep being somewhat distant, keep pushing for building connection and keep on having a friendly and warm attitude.

 

The frame is, I am not playing games of who says hi first, nor am I going to wait to get what I want ( connection, fun and warmth in a social environment).

You frame yourself as a go getter and not as a needy guy.

It would be tempting to tell yourself that if people aren’t warm to you than fuck them, or fuck the country you live in, you just won’t connect with them.

But that would not make me feel like I tried to handle this situation like a champion.

If anything, ignoring these people back has the risk of making you bitter.

the question 

 

So how do you shed that bitterness and deal with these people who do not say hi first ?

 

Curious what you guys think of this and especially if you have had similar experiences in your social life and environments.

I agree with you:

Saying "fuck it" and ignoring everyone is a trap.

At least if you don't first try to find a different solution.

Your plan sounds great.

And then I'd wonder: do they answer when you say "hi" first?
Most people usually fall into the frame of the one that seems most dead-set on his way.
If they say "hi" back, you take the initiative and they're reacting to you.

There's no major power loss there.

Then you could keep on saying "hi" first.
And if you stop to talk more, you could even add "I was looking at you, I wasn't sure it was you", as if to say "you weren't giving me any signs". And then you can say that you're used to saying hi more affectionately. They might get it and then be warmer next time around.

Matthew Whitewood, Growfast and NoLimits have reacted to this post.
Matthew WhitewoodGrowfastNoLimits
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

Appreciate your answer Lucio.

In particular, I love your idea of not only saying hi, but also add ‘ I was looking at you but not sure you saw me’.

Subtle yet incredibly clear - and very low effort as well.

That’s high level communication.

cultural differences

I’m still being amazed by how different some things can be between two cultures apparently similar such as France and Italy - which are considered the creators of la dolce vita ( a lifestyle in which human connection plays a huge role).

The other day Lucio mentioned - and I am paraphrasing here - he  would have loved having a tough environment to relate with for that can only improve your social skills, provided that you TRY.

This is a great insight for where I am now in life.

back to basics : social skills 101

It feels like I would benefit from going  back to basics from a social skills stand point here in France.

Some points anyone can steal from my social skill workout  :

- putting away your phone and strive to build a connection when you are close to a human being, no matter how cold, passive aggressive or boring he might seem.

- set a goal of turning cold/ passive aggressive people into friends and combat the ‘fuck you I don’t need you ‘ mentality which is great for a naive person but limiting for a high intermediate individual.

-  When you’re in a group, not being afraid to start talking and expressing yourself without necessarily baiting - a.k.a making others ask you questions. (Even though baiting is idea,  simply talking and blurting out your opinion is  better than staying in your head and on the sidelines, especially if you get a response. You can also ask questions which always works. But talk !!)

In other words, the goal is playing offense and focus on getting results instead of focusing on minimizing effort, which it’s a good thing to be aware of but may not be the best mindset for maximizing learning.

Law of least effort critique 

I’m noticing that when you focus on the law of least effort instead of focusing only on getting results, you end up being stuck in your head and often uselessly.

You start telling yourself : ‘ oh I’m not going to say hi first, otherwise this person might reject me, or even if he does not reject me it is me who put in the effort first to walk there and say hi. So I’m still losing overall’.

Instead, things would go differently if you adopted  a ‘results only’ mindset.

Using the same exemple. But focusing on results only: you walk to the person who does not waver at you, in a nonchalant fashion, you say hi and persist to build a conversation. You stay in the conversation long enough instead of letting the effort mindset giving you an excuse to eject.

If you try both approches 10 times, no matter where you are. I’m sure the second one is WAY better, in terms of results and self confidence.

Any opinion on this guys ?

 

 

All great points, NoLimits.

Yes, the law of least effort / social ROI can easily become a defensive mindset.

There are several concepts in power dynamics that are valid but that can make people overly defensive and ultimately less effective.

Also, it's important not to confuse "lots of effort with zero results", which is not good, with "higher efforts, and making friends / being social", which is great.

In particular, I love your idea of not only saying hi, but also add ‘ I was looking at you but not sure you saw me’.

Subtle yet incredibly clear - and very low effort as well.

That’s high level communication.

Yes, exactly.

It frames the "warm" approach as normal and good.

And it frames the "cold"/ignoring as "strange"/not good.

It's great for instant communication and for potentially changing their behavior with you longer-term.
And it's also good for your mindset.

The frame starts with you believe, and if you believe that warm is normal and good, that will carry you through -which is probably true by the way, people who are warmer tend to be and make others happier and mentally healthier-.

If you do it over and over again, some people might think you're "too warm" for them.
With those, you can eventually adapt to them if you prefer, or let them fade away.

But if you keep being yourself, eventually it will become for everyone "who you are".
And since people generally appreciate and look to warm people who are being themselves, that's generally good for you.

And those that like it and vibe with it will gravitate more and more towards you, and you make better friends, and develop a social circle of like-minded folks.

Let us know how it goes, curious to hear more.

Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

Yes, the law of least effort / social ROI can easily become a defensive mindset.

There are several concepts in power dynamics that are valid but that can make people overly defensive and ultimately less effective.

yeah.

I think these concepts all have their place for certain people and at a specific time of someone’s journey.

Let’s say you have a shy guy who’s otherwise socially well calibrated : are you going to start his ‘social workout ‘ with a law of least effort framework ?

This guy does not even know what results mean and how to get them. He does not know the hundreds of different ways one can get results.

 

Such a mindset will not help him long term.

For example I’ve learned about the law of least effort from Chase Amante - who’s an absolute genius btw.

At the time he was big on transforming yourself into a ‘strong silent type’ because that kind of personality is easier to learn than a talkative one.

The deduction one can make from such an insight  is that by talking less and sometimes trying less one gets more results ( with less effort).

This sounds tempting at first, except for the fact that there are a MILLION exceptions to this rule  ( Chase somewhat mentions this in other articles but just making a point here)

In a group or in a social situation for instance, those who talk a lot are often (but not always ) the leaders.

I suspect this is because of the endless practice at ‘getting results’ these people go through - compared to the silent types. Sure, short term wise limiting your efforts and prioritizing the Low of least efforts might increase your social power and results.

But long term, the ‘high effort: super high results’ guy learns more and wins.

Again, there are exceptions to this and it depends on where you are at with this journey but you guys get my point.

Efforts vs Results

In my opinion the human brain prioritizes social results way more than it does evaluate a ratio of social effort : results.

You have, in other words, more room to fail than you might imagine before you can consider yourself a ‘jester’ (on this note : I’ve never met a jester in my life btw but it’s probably because the cities where I lived are highly calibrated cities by definition )

I have no studies to prove this but I do have anecdotal experience : Most leaders I know TRY and FAIL more in a social setting, but because of a mix of talent and practice they end up being the leader. None of them comes off as a jester, in other words.

Any of you guys have spent some time thinking about this concept  ?

But if you keep being yourself, eventually it will become for everyone "who you are".
And since people generally appreciate and look to warm people who are being themselves, that's generally good for you.

Glad to hear you say this.

And I feel the same, as mentioned above.

People who express themselves are often leaders, whom are awesome at storytelling, and bantering.

 

Not that introverts do not express themselves but they do become group leaders more rarely in my opinion. They’re not as interested.

 

Conclusion

I will keep you updated on my journey for sure but for now it feels like expressing myself was the missing ingredient to my skills.

I almost felt trapped in this effort vs results mindset, to the point of becoming paranoid when someone wouldn’t answer to me on a whatsap group ( REBT also helped me here but it’s not enough).

Ps : guys feel free to criticize my theory or simply share your opinion on this.

No limits

 

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Lucio Buffalmano
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