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Rejections: When all seems to go great - How to know what to fix / what could be done better?
Hey!
I have been dating around now quite a bit, majority of the times it goes well, but now have ran into a "cant understand" situation a couple of times. For sure, I have lot to improve, and I would like to improve here, but, however, (especially) in this scenario, it's pretty hard to point out exactly what to improve. As a side note, I had this realization: It seems to be hard to find out what to improve since you really can't ask or get straightforward, pin-pointing feedback in the dating-world. Overall, I guess best route of action is to improve everything.
The situation that happened three times now (as for background: most of the times, I tend to be pretty succesful in dating, so it seems to not be something "always deal-breaking" I mess up). Didn't know how to write that without sounding like a bragging douche, lol)):
- Meet girl(s) through online dating
- Set a first date - goes great, ends in making out at my place.
- She points out some way that she's not up for it the first time. I act pretty unaffected, maybe make out some more / play around / have fun, don't really push for it, then the date ends a while after. Also some more making out when dropping her home/when she is leaving.
Sometimes (this happened twice now, after almost identical dates) it seems to be very hard to set the second date after such a scenario. When texting for a second date (usually just someway ask when would they be free to get together the following days/week). Replies were somewhat "i'm really busy this week and weekend" or so, and the dates seem to not happen when trying again later. One girl said that she is seeing someone else, not sure how factual would that be.
As a man who would always like to face the brutal truth, point out the error and correct it, it's pretty hard here.
What I could come up as hypotheses as possible explanations:
- too "early" for making out? Put in the "player" category, looking for just sex? (however, to me, it would sound somewhat weird to not go for the kiss or so).
- They just didn't really like me that much. (however, this is not what the making out and so indicates? Could these girls just enjoy that for some other reason?)
- Something about online dating profile does not match the idea what they thought, they just roll with the date, but since the image in their mind is different, no interest to continue? (however, I do get recognized there quite often by girls I have no idea of (in a "I have seen you"- way for example), and don't tell too much about the "cool stuff" in my life in there)
- Is making out, no sex, considered a failed mating attempt? This was pointed to often spell doom for a relationship in SU. (if this, what should the making out be limited to on the 1st date?)
- They really are just busy (lol)
Also, what came to mind was this question, if anyone has seen any scientific articles on this, it would be very interesting: How "universal" is the attraction considered towards a person? How variable is the this "response" to attractiveness between individuals. As in, can person A consider you very attractive, but person B not? Assuming A and B are somewhat "similar" in demographics etc. This links to the first issue, since if it's very universal, it's an issue with other girls, right? Then it's pretty hard to understand why it works with most, but some no.
I think this could be a major learning experience, at least for me, hopefully this could be of learning use to others also. Would appreciate any comments, ideas very much!
It's a tough one. I'm thinking about it.
Could you detail each one of the three encounters? Because the could be commonalities but there could be differences as well. And also how did you follow up exactly?
If I understood well, you have a short-term dating strategy, right?
I have several ideas but need more detail to give more relevant feed-back.
Quote from John Freeman on June 11, 2022, 11:46 pmIt's a tough one. I'm thinking about it.
Could you detail each one of the three encounters? Because the could be commonalities but there could be differences as well. And also how did you follow up exactly?
If I understood well, you have a short-term dating strategy, right?
I have several ideas but need more detail to give more relevant feed-back.
Great, thanks for chipping in!
These dates where this has occurred have actually been identical: Meet somewhere, go for a drive/walk, conversation, grab some quick food/snack/ etc, invite home, watch something, and when it has felt like it, start making out - they seem to be really into it. At some point she'd say that she's not doing it on the first date or something, one girl actually pulled a great move: she said "its a principle I'm not doing it on the first date, but you are not making it easy" :D. Another said that she couldn't do it due to some issues, and seemed sorry about it. And another just said that "did that I said this turn you off?"After that, play around some/make out some more. More making out when she leaves/when dropping her home. After 1-2 days, invite for second date, asking quite literally "how would you be free to hang out next week/following days?".
The dates and girls that it's easy to set a second date seems to have at least one difference usually: if the date included 1st date lay, or after only maybe a slight basic kiss at the end of the date. Or sometimes girls who couldn't go to my place on the first date are happy to set a second. Maybe there's a pattern there, can't tell for sure since the sample is probably not that much to reach statistical significance yet, lol!
Strategy is not strictly short-term, but it's a part. Right now, the main frame is that if a really great girl shows up, I would like to go for longer.
Hello SP,
If I had to guess based on the information here:
Quote from SocialPower on June 11, 2022, 8:56 pm
- Is making out, no sex, considered a failed mating attempt? This was pointed to often spell doom for a relationship in SU. (if this, what should the making out be limited to on the 1st date?)
The making out must not necessarily spell doom.
For example, if it's outside, walking in a park, sitting by a beautiful panorama after a hike, or on a high between you two, then the frame is more "romance".
But when it's at your place, in a setting that feels and is often associated with sex, then the frame is more like "we started going towards sex, but sex didn't happen".
Plus, albeit a smaller contributor, the online dating may still have a slight frame of "men who seek women for casual sex".
More of a detail:
Quote from SocialPower on June 12, 2022, 12:40 amAfter 1-2 days, invite for second date, asking quite literally "how would you be free to hang out next week/following days?".
But after a make out at your place with no sex, I'd switch approach and go:
- higher leadership
- higher dominance
- faster multiple dates strategy
Such as, the day after sending a message saying it was good meeting them, and instead of asking when they're free, telling them the date when you can meet again (same day or day after).
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on June 12, 2022, 3:23 amHello SP,
If I had to guess based on the information here:
Quote from SocialPower on June 11, 2022, 8:56 pm
- Is making out, no sex, considered a failed mating attempt? This was pointed to often spell doom for a relationship in SU. (if this, what should the making out be limited to on the 1st date?)
The making out must not necessarily spell doom.
For example, if it's outside, walking in a park, sitting by a beautiful panorama after a hike, or on a high between you two, then the frame is more "romance".
But when it's at your place, in a setting that feels and is often associated with sex, then the frame is more like "we started going towards sex, but sex didn't happen".
Plus, albeit a smaller contributor, the online dating may still have a slight frame of "men who seek women for casual sex".More of a detail:
Quote from SocialPower on June 12, 2022, 12:40 amAfter 1-2 days, invite for second date, asking quite literally "how would you be free to hang out next week/following days?".
But after a make out at your place with no sex, I'd switch approach and go:
- higher leadership
- higher dominance
- faster multiple dates strategy
Such as, the day after sending a message saying it was good meeting them, and instead of asking when they're free, telling them the date when you can meet again (same day or day after).
Allright, thanks alot for the answer! So, likely, in this context, it could be considered an attempt that didn't go through, and that's no good for continuing.
Evaluating possible fixes:
- Not going for it that much on 1st date?
- Going for it, and accepting it doesn't always happen, and if doesn't, its not great for following up, but try to fix when setting the second date
Note: a lot of girls (at least here) seem to have that frame of "not on 1st date" and want to hold on to that frame, esp the GF-type girls.
It seems kind of weird actually - you two are really into each other, and making out on a first date is certainly not the worst scenario, lol. But then it all fumbles (possibly/likely, might be other contributing factors) due to a frame of "just sex".
Thanks for the tip on texting, will be using that. So it is like this:
1. Date ends
2. Text day (or two?) after it was nice to meet her
3. A day after from point 2, go higher dominance on the setting.
Would be interesting to know, why it is better to wait a day after point 2?
Cheers! :D
Both of your solutions:
Go all the way, or don't start it at all.
But if you start, keep in mind that many women won't go with the flow, so you need to lead that escalation -and "not today" should only seldom be taken at face value-.
Quote from SocialPower on June 12, 2022, 11:28 amNote: a lot of girls (at least here) seem to have that frame of "not on 1st date" and want to hold on to that frame, esp the GF-type girls.
It's certainly possible, which is one of the reasons why this website doesn't stick to one single "strategy fits all".
HOWEVER...
You need to make sure first that it's not you who's making women feel like it's best to postpone.
Because a lot of guys say that, even in places where one-date to intimacy is not only possible, but more effective.
I agree with Lucio. What I would add is about the frame.
If you bring them home and IF you have a player vibe (hence my question), then some women don't want to be "one of your notches on your bedpost".
Also, when you contact them afterwards, it can feel as "the next interaction is about the sex we have not had" since it's the next step in the escalation. So when you contact them again, they're in a different mood. They might be at work or watching TV. So it might feel as if you're proposing sex "out of the blue". For you as a man it's logical that now it's time to cash in. For her as a woman, it's a bit lukewarm/cold: as Lucio said she was excited and nothing happened. Now she gets a proposition to do it all over again. She might feel that you failed to lead her to sex.
Another thing is that women have often multiple suitors. So it suffices that you don't fit one of the checkboxes and she's on to the next. Maybe she had a wonderful date before/after you where the guy was going the provider route. So if she has to choose, then she might choose this guy. I'm speculating here, we don't know what's going on in their lives.
So, it could be a mix of several things. What matters is that you do what is in your control. I would also experiment with going all the way since it seems also that when you postpone you buy into her frame. Maybe she succeeds in making you feel guilty for wanting to have sex on the first date. If that's the case, she's the one who's leading.
Another option is that when you stop escalating, she might feel as you "don't desire her that much". So she put an obstacle and you did not jump over it.
So many things. To avoid disappointment, I think it's important to do everything you think you could do. The rest is outside your control.
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on June 12, 2022, 1:52 pmBoth of your solutions:
Go all the way, or don't start it at all.
But if you start, keep in mind that many women won't go with the flow, so you need to lead that escalation -and "not today" should only seldom be taken at face value-.
Quote from SocialPower on June 12, 2022, 11:28 amNote: a lot of girls (at least here) seem to have that frame of "not on 1st date" and want to hold on to that frame, esp the GF-type girls.
It's certainly possible, which is one of the reasons why this website doesn't stick to one single "strategy fits all".
HOWEVER...
You need to make sure first that it's not you who's making women feel like it's best to postpone.
Because a lot of guys say that, even in places where one-date to intimacy is not only possible, but more effective.
Roger. So, need to lead more. Also, learn to read the situation and know when to go for it and when to not. Likely bias toward going for it, and learning to handle the situations smoother and more leader-like. Also, need to make sure that i'm not causing the postponing too much.
Thanks a lot! Know much better now, and it's straightforwardly applicable.
Quote from John Freeman on June 12, 2022, 2:06 pmI agree with Lucio. What I would add is about the frame.
If you bring them home and IF you have a player vibe (hence my question), then some women don't want to be "one of your notches on your bedpost".
Also, when you contact them afterwards, it can feel as "the next interaction is about the sex we have not had" since it's the next step in the escalation. So when you contact them again, they're in a different mood. They might be at work or watching TV. So it might feel as if you're proposing sex "out of the blue". For you as a man it's logical that now it's time to cash in. For her as a woman, it's a bit lukewarm/cold: as Lucio said she was excited and nothing happened. Now she gets a proposition to do it all over again. She might feel that you failed to lead her to sex.
Another thing is that women have often multiple suitors. So it suffices that you don't fit one of the checkboxes and she's on to the next. Maybe she had a wonderful date before/after you where the guy was going the provider route. So if she has to choose, then she might choose this guy. I'm speculating here, we don't know what's going on in their lives.
So, it could be a mix of several things. What matters is that you do what is in your control. I would also experiment with going all the way since it seems also that when you postpone you buy into her frame. Maybe she succeeds in making you feel guilty for wanting to have sex on the first date. If that's the case, she's the one who's leading.
Another option is that when you stop escalating, she might feel as you "don't desire her that much". So she put an obstacle and you did not jump over it.
So many things. To avoid disappointment, I think it's important to do everything you think you could do. The rest is outside your control.
Thanks! These are great points I did not think of. It sure sets some pressure to do it the next time. And it comes out of the blue.
Really great mindset also to do all that is in your control. That frame is also important.
I learned a ton here from all the answers. Thanks a lot again everybody!
Cheers SP, and I must say that you seem to have really good approaches and mindsets to self-development.
