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Self-criticism (experimental)

#1 · August 8, 2023, 8:14 pm

Quote from John Freeman on August 8, 2023, 8:14 pm
Hello,
I'm experimenting with a thread where I'll self-criticize about what I write on the forum. I'm aware it's thread-expanding on my (possible) mistakes. However, I experiment with the short-term loss of status (I'll probably look dumb) with the long-term gain of learning. I'm aware that a growth mindset without power-awareness is a sucker's trade. That's why I'm experimenting with it. I feel that self-criticism does not fall into other threads like feedbacks and clarifications nor sorrys nor thank yous. So I'm creating this one.
Another downfall is that exposing one's thought processes is an act of vulnerability so there is also a loss of power. Anyway, we'll see if it's worthi it.
If other people feel like it's useful to them, feel free to use this thread as well of course.
Quote from John Freeman on August 1, 2023, 7:41 pm
Alright, my bad I thought it resembled a former situation. I take it back. It's not.
I'm glad it's all behind us now.
I also got caught in the past in misunderstandings on the forum so I empathize it is quite confusing and intense as one does not know how to get out of it.
If in any shape of form I had any responsibility in this conflict, please guys let me know. Whether it's the topic or the way I spoke. I'm working on untangling unconscious behavioural patterns so that would be helpful for me.
I'm going to address my previous message and self-criticize.
Quote from John Freeman on August 1, 2023, 11:06 am
Hello DGX37 and Lucio,
First, I want to say props to DGX37 for admitting that it still hurt you. I think it's important to be honest with our feelings. I don't mean in any way or shape or form that it makes you weak. As it's sometimes our fear and we don't admit it hurt us. It does take courage to admit it. So I hope it's clear and I'm happy to clarify. To summarize: I admire your courage to speak out. And generally that helps us get to the bottom of things inside of us.
This falls down as it was a misunderstanding: you let it go emotionally.
Regarding your answer, Lucio: I think your messages have both the merit to be clear and honest. That being said I can understand why DGX37 you felt like hyper-relativists were made fun of. To me when I read that it brought an inner smile. So that's the effect it had on me. So I could say I found it "funny" myself. Now, reading your message I can see the distinction and I feel it's totally clear and fair as a distinction. So I think the frame of direct and strong is more accurate in this situation than "making fun". There was no joke, nor humour intended so it was not "making fun" in this sense.
This was solved as you guys already talked about it.
Was it disrespectful to this group? I think it was in the sense of taking status from them (as in value/importance). The truth is that no one likes all the groups so in this sense it's a honest opinion. I don't think the wording was too strong. Maybe I'm biased here. Not because it fits me but because it can be read as an exaggeration to highlight that the reasoning behind the opinion of this group does not make sense (which is another opinion) to you. So in a sense it reinforces the argument that the opinion of this group is not a very relevant one for you Lucio. So in terms of frame it's fair. Using the word "idiots" did frame them as out-group I think. So it was clear to me in the texts that no one here belonged to this group. That you were talking about others and not DGX37.
No change here. You guys talked about it as well.
About saying that one understand that the other did not mean it and still feel insulted is not coherent I agree. When someone says something that offends me and apologizes afterwards if I say: "It's all good" and smile. It also means that emotionally I let go of it. When I did/do not it meant/ means I was holding a grudge and that it was not really "good" after all.
This also was solved as it was a misundersanding.
Lucio, I think your apology message in the original thread was quite clear, rapport-building, vulnerable and an olive branch. You also opened the possibility to write here to further explain and repair the relationship. So I think it was appropriate and collaborative.
No change here.
How I view this (you know me by now) generally speaking: as a self-development opportunity. To me it's the topic of "taking something personally"
"someone is making fun of other people's ideas".
How I view it in real life is that in life if someone makes fun of your ideas DGX37, there is the risk of feeling hurt and defending. So the people who do not have your best interests in mind now know: "oh oh this guy does not like it". So it makes you vulnerable to this kind of attack (generally speaking when someone's making fun of your ideas/opinions not Lucio here).
So to me these kind of events on the forum or in real life are opportunities to think: "why do I feel like that?" and get to the bottom of it. For you. Not for Lucio not for me not for anyone else. How I view it and you might disagree is that it's an opportunity to heal something and/or to remove a button. That's how I view it: a learning opportunity. The communication between you and Lucio is one thing. You guys will resolve it anyway. To me the most important thing is the introspection following feeling hurt. Whatever you come up with will help you in future interactions. I know you did not request any advice so feel free to ignore it. That's my general stance on things anyway: "what can I learn from this?". And in my opinion not taking things personally is a skill that is worth its weight in peanuts (as we say in French).
What I think is that it's totally ok to make fun of people's opinions and ideas. They're just opinions and ideas. They're not us and they're definitely not our identity. That Lucio wrote the "The making of the Ubermensch" or "Eagle" or even "High-quality man" people could make fun of it. And it's ok who cares? People can make fun of our ideas and opinions. To me it's totally fine. Now making fun of us is a different thing. If someone says: "one must be an idiot to think like that" then they're implying your an idiot and defending that it's fine. If they think this is an idiotic idea I would just ask why they think like that. They have the right to think an idea is idiotic. As long as I don't associate with the idea I don't take it personally. There are many ideas that I think are idiotic and that people around the World have.
It does not make me a bad person and it does not mean I think they're idiots. However one risk becoming an idiot if one identifies with an idiotic idea or any idea and is not ready to look at it for what it is that is examine it: "what is this idea I have anyway?" (that is for all of us including me). That is why I don't identify with the left nor the right. It's way too dangerous intellectually. So that means I have to associate with all the stupid ideas that the left or the right has? Nope no thank you. I try to find what is true and what I find is always in flux. As Mark Manson says: "we're wrong about everything". And it's ok. However, we have to live so we have to use transient truths. That is the truth that is practical and makes sense now to us. Nobody can know the absolute truth. So most of the things we think are opinions really. And they might and will change. So being ok with it is helpful I think. An idea good for us if it's useful/value-adding to us. If it is then who cares if people make fun of it.
As I said: when we talk about beliefs and values it can be quite emotional since it becomes about our identity. So I think it's more useful in general in self-development not to identify with our beliefs in values. That is: "this is what I value and believes in and maybe I'm wrong or maybe tomorrow it will be different". So it gives us the fluidity not to be attached to our values and beliefs and therefore not to be vulnerable when we feel they are being attacked.
With some distance I would not write this again. As I said DGX37 you did not request any advice/feed-back from me. So this was an unnecessary teacher's frame.
If someone says to me: "people who believe in spirituality are idiots". I will ask them: "why do you think that?" then they will explain so I understand better their ideas and I thank them for explaining. Now I understand better, I have more intel and it does not change my life a bit. I won't change their mind through conversation, examples or whatever anyway. I may not feel as close to them as before and it's ok.
This is plain wrong. This is thread-expanding on people making fun of my belief. It's like asking: "please tell me how much of an idiot do you think I am and why?". The right answer here is a philosopher's frame: "Well, we all have different beliefs and point view. Everybody's different. Anyway..." and bridge.
I know I wrote way too much. Lots of opinions of mine in it as well. So more opportunities of disagreement. Sorry if that's the case not my intention. I did my best to express my view as there are many threads in there so contradictions might arise in my writing.
Here I self-deprecate too much: I actually look down on myself having written so much. This would have been solved if I did not write about the "taking things personally part". I thread-expands on "opinions can bring disagreement" which is bad. And even worse I say: "my opinions can bring disagreement" which is negative self-frame and low self-esteem. I apologize in advance: "Sorry...." and justify myself: "I did my best" this was to prevent any backlash and aggression. So this is submissive in advance to prevent any conflict. This and also giving unrequested advice is what framed me as "a too nice guy". I framed myself this way first. So this was unnecessary and low power.
In Summary: the communication part you guys will solve it and I would focus on the self-development opportunity. I hope I'm not making 2 enemies in 1 post 😀 (I'm being cheeky here being the 3rd party. You will notice I did my best to talk directly to each of you using "you" to avoid being a 3rd party talking in 3rd person "he" to avoid take any intermediary role which would be a power move but have as much as possible an outside observer role and therefore a 1-to-1 communication and avoid the 1 to 2 communication: me addressing you as a group). In the end it was not quick...
Here I go too much in details about my communication process. Again it was due to previous experiences here to avoid backlash and aggression. So this was also a submissive stance. Using humour here was also a way to sub-communicate: "I mean no harm" which also self-framed me as harmless. I know that in a 3 people communication dynamics, things can go real bad real fast. I wanted to prevent it.
However, to do so in the best way I could have let Lucio and DGX37 solve their conflict first and then maybe add some comment. That would be the most useful stance. Or as DGX37 you said in another thread it's better to first see how the other person reacts before stepping in. I know it's not exactly the same situation as here it's about clarifying communication first but still. The 3rd party has a right timing to come in: not too late not too early on top of having the right mindset/attitude (which I did my best to have). Also I did not want to step in as an intermediary as I said in order not to power move on you guys and also because I did not see it fit here. The request from Lucio was: "how do you guys see this?" and I wanted to address this question only.
So too much explanation here which sounds like justification.
Finally another apology which is unneeded so another submissive stance ("In the end...")
I'm happy if you guys feel like commenting on this.

Hello,

I'm experimenting with a thread where I'll self-criticize about what I write on the forum. I'm aware it's thread-expanding on my (possible) mistakes. However, I experiment with the short-term loss of status (I'll probably look dumb) with the long-term gain of learning. I'm aware that a growth mindset without power-awareness is a sucker's trade. That's why I'm experimenting with it. I feel that self-criticism does not fall into other threads like feedbacks and clarifications nor sorrys nor thank yous. So I'm creating this one.

Another downfall is that exposing one's thought processes is an act of vulnerability so there is also a loss of power. Anyway, we'll see if it's worthi it.

If other people feel like it's useful to them, feel free to use this thread as well of course.

Quote from John Freeman on August 1, 2023, 7:41 pm
Alright, my bad I thought it resembled a former situation. I take it back. It's not.
I'm glad it's all behind us now.
I also got caught in the past in misunderstandings on the forum so I empathize it is quite confusing and intense as one does not know how to get out of it.
If in any shape of form I had any responsibility in this conflict, please guys let me know. Whether it's the topic or the way I spoke. I'm working on untangling unconscious behavioural patterns so that would be helpful for me.
I'm going to address my previous message and self-criticize.
Quote from John Freeman on August 1, 2023, 11:06 am
Hello DGX37 and Lucio,
First, I want to say props to DGX37 for admitting that it still hurt you. I think it's important to be honest with our feelings. I don't mean in any way or shape or form that it makes you weak. As it's sometimes our fear and we don't admit it hurt us. It does take courage to admit it. So I hope it's clear and I'm happy to clarify. To summarize: I admire your courage to speak out. And generally that helps us get to the bottom of things inside of us.
This falls down as it was a misunderstanding: you let it go emotionally.
Regarding your answer, Lucio: I think your messages have both the merit to be clear and honest. That being said I can understand why DGX37 you felt like hyper-relativists were made fun of. To me when I read that it brought an inner smile. So that's the effect it had on me. So I could say I found it "funny" myself. Now, reading your message I can see the distinction and I feel it's totally clear and fair as a distinction. So I think the frame of direct and strong is more accurate in this situation than "making fun". There was no joke, nor humour intended so it was not "making fun" in this sense.
This was solved as you guys already talked about it.
Was it disrespectful to this group? I think it was in the sense of taking status from them (as in value/importance). The truth is that no one likes all the groups so in this sense it's a honest opinion. I don't think the wording was too strong. Maybe I'm biased here. Not because it fits me but because it can be read as an exaggeration to highlight that the reasoning behind the opinion of this group does not make sense (which is another opinion) to you. So in a sense it reinforces the argument that the opinion of this group is not a very relevant one for you Lucio. So in terms of frame it's fair. Using the word "idiots" did frame them as out-group I think. So it was clear to me in the texts that no one here belonged to this group. That you were talking about others and not DGX37.
No change here. You guys talked about it as well.
About saying that one understand that the other did not mean it and still feel insulted is not coherent I agree. When someone says something that offends me and apologizes afterwards if I say: "It's all good" and smile. It also means that emotionally I let go of it. When I did/do not it meant/ means I was holding a grudge and that it was not really "good" after all.
This also was solved as it was a misundersanding.
Lucio, I think your apology message in the original thread was quite clear, rapport-building, vulnerable and an olive branch. You also opened the possibility to write here to further explain and repair the relationship. So I think it was appropriate and collaborative.
No change here.
How I view this (you know me by now) generally speaking: as a self-development opportunity. To me it's the topic of "taking something personally"
"someone is making fun of other people's ideas".
How I view it in real life is that in life if someone makes fun of your ideas DGX37, there is the risk of feeling hurt and defending. So the people who do not have your best interests in mind now know: "oh oh this guy does not like it". So it makes you vulnerable to this kind of attack (generally speaking when someone's making fun of your ideas/opinions not Lucio here).
So to me these kind of events on the forum or in real life are opportunities to think: "why do I feel like that?" and get to the bottom of it. For you. Not for Lucio not for me not for anyone else. How I view it and you might disagree is that it's an opportunity to heal something and/or to remove a button. That's how I view it: a learning opportunity. The communication between you and Lucio is one thing. You guys will resolve it anyway. To me the most important thing is the introspection following feeling hurt. Whatever you come up with will help you in future interactions. I know you did not request any advice so feel free to ignore it. That's my general stance on things anyway: "what can I learn from this?". And in my opinion not taking things personally is a skill that is worth its weight in peanuts (as we say in French).
What I think is that it's totally ok to make fun of people's opinions and ideas. They're just opinions and ideas. They're not us and they're definitely not our identity. That Lucio wrote the "The making of the Ubermensch" or "Eagle" or even "High-quality man" people could make fun of it. And it's ok who cares? People can make fun of our ideas and opinions. To me it's totally fine. Now making fun of us is a different thing. If someone says: "one must be an idiot to think like that" then they're implying your an idiot and defending that it's fine. If they think this is an idiotic idea I would just ask why they think like that. They have the right to think an idea is idiotic. As long as I don't associate with the idea I don't take it personally. There are many ideas that I think are idiotic and that people around the World have.
It does not make me a bad person and it does not mean I think they're idiots. However one risk becoming an idiot if one identifies with an idiotic idea or any idea and is not ready to look at it for what it is that is examine it: "what is this idea I have anyway?" (that is for all of us including me). That is why I don't identify with the left nor the right. It's way too dangerous intellectually. So that means I have to associate with all the stupid ideas that the left or the right has? Nope no thank you. I try to find what is true and what I find is always in flux. As Mark Manson says: "we're wrong about everything". And it's ok. However, we have to live so we have to use transient truths. That is the truth that is practical and makes sense now to us. Nobody can know the absolute truth. So most of the things we think are opinions really. And they might and will change. So being ok with it is helpful I think. An idea good for us if it's useful/value-adding to us. If it is then who cares if people make fun of it.
As I said: when we talk about beliefs and values it can be quite emotional since it becomes about our identity. So I think it's more useful in general in self-development not to identify with our beliefs in values. That is: "this is what I value and believes in and maybe I'm wrong or maybe tomorrow it will be different". So it gives us the fluidity not to be attached to our values and beliefs and therefore not to be vulnerable when we feel they are being attacked.
With some distance I would not write this again. As I said DGX37 you did not request any advice/feed-back from me. So this was an unnecessary teacher's frame.
If someone says to me: "people who believe in spirituality are idiots". I will ask them: "why do you think that?" then they will explain so I understand better their ideas and I thank them for explaining. Now I understand better, I have more intel and it does not change my life a bit. I won't change their mind through conversation, examples or whatever anyway. I may not feel as close to them as before and it's ok.
This is plain wrong. This is thread-expanding on people making fun of my belief. It's like asking: "please tell me how much of an idiot do you think I am and why?". The right answer here is a philosopher's frame: "Well, we all have different beliefs and point view. Everybody's different. Anyway..." and bridge.
I know I wrote way too much. Lots of opinions of mine in it as well. So more opportunities of disagreement. Sorry if that's the case not my intention. I did my best to express my view as there are many threads in there so contradictions might arise in my writing.
Here I self-deprecate too much: I actually look down on myself having written so much. This would have been solved if I did not write about the "taking things personally part". I thread-expands on "opinions can bring disagreement" which is bad. And even worse I say: "my opinions can bring disagreement" which is negative self-frame and low self-esteem. I apologize in advance: "Sorry...." and justify myself: "I did my best" this was to prevent any backlash and aggression. So this is submissive in advance to prevent any conflict. This and also giving unrequested advice is what framed me as "a too nice guy". I framed myself this way first. So this was unnecessary and low power.
In Summary: the communication part you guys will solve it and I would focus on the self-development opportunity. I hope I'm not making 2 enemies in 1 post 😀 (I'm being cheeky here being the 3rd party. You will notice I did my best to talk directly to each of you using "you" to avoid being a 3rd party talking in 3rd person "he" to avoid take any intermediary role which would be a power move but have as much as possible an outside observer role and therefore a 1-to-1 communication and avoid the 1 to 2 communication: me addressing you as a group). In the end it was not quick...
Here I go too much in details about my communication process. Again it was due to previous experiences here to avoid backlash and aggression. So this was also a submissive stance. Using humour here was also a way to sub-communicate: "I mean no harm" which also self-framed me as harmless. I know that in a 3 people communication dynamics, things can go real bad real fast. I wanted to prevent it.
However, to do so in the best way I could have let Lucio and DGX37 solve their conflict first and then maybe add some comment. That would be the most useful stance. Or as DGX37 you said in another thread it's better to first see how the other person reacts before stepping in. I know it's not exactly the same situation as here it's about clarifying communication first but still. The 3rd party has a right timing to come in: not too late not too early on top of having the right mindset/attitude (which I did my best to have). Also I did not want to step in as an intermediary as I said in order not to power move on you guys and also because I did not see it fit here. The request from Lucio was: "how do you guys see this?" and I wanted to address this question only.
So too much explanation here which sounds like justification.
Finally another apology which is unneeded so another submissive stance ("In the end...")
I'm happy if you guys feel like commenting on this.

Roberto and Power Duck have reacted to this post.

#2 · August 8, 2023, 8:31 pm

Quote from John Freeman on August 8, 2023, 8:31 pm
Quote from John Freeman on August 2, 2023, 11:15 am
Hey man,
thanks for your answer. To be honest it turned into a "who's right" thing and I'm not interested in those. I'll be real with you. I understand and respect your opinion though: you think that morality is a social construct.
Here I did my best to be assertive and to be respectful. By summarizing my goal was for the recipient to know that I listened. This is also power-protecting and improves the communication as the other one can correct me. So I feel it's assertive in a way that is equal-to-equal.
I adressed all of the points above but probably I was not clear enough. Sometimes we try to have a conversation and it seems like we keep not understanding one another despite our best efforts. It happens. I don’t have anything more to add.
On the forum we had these long drawn-out debates where in the end it is (to me) only ego-fights and/or fights for status. As I said I'm not interested in those. So I did not want to get drawn in those long back-and-forth which are not value adding. So these exchanges end up being lose-lose to me. However, here it was interesting to see Lucio continue the conversation. So I learned from him about continuing to use rational arguments and after having tried say: "Let's agree to disagree". I read the lesson today in PU. So it's a great progression in terms of escalation.
So I think I could have gone one argument further as he did before calling it as in "I did my best" as Lucio did. So I quit too early here.
And as I said I could have been more assertive.
When I repeated what I had heard:
"you think that morality is a social construct"
I could have also said my side:
"and I think it's not. Let's agree to disagree".
This would have been more self-respectful to my own thinking and for having started the conversation. If I quit too early it's like the example of the leader who did not react when the mug is thrown. Yes not stay stuck in an endless debate but push it to a reasonable advancement and if no dialogue can be achieved to stop it here.

Quote from John Freeman on August 2, 2023, 11:15 am
Hey man,
thanks for your answer. To be honest it turned into a "who's right" thing and I'm not interested in those. I'll be real with you. I understand and respect your opinion though: you think that morality is a social construct.

Here I did my best to be assertive and to be respectful. By summarizing my goal was for the recipient to know that I listened. This is also power-protecting and improves the communication as the other one can correct me. So I feel it's assertive in a way that is equal-to-equal.

I adressed all of the points above but probably I was not clear enough. Sometimes we try to have a conversation and it seems like we keep not understanding one another despite our best efforts. It happens. I don’t have anything more to add.

On the forum we had these long drawn-out debates where in the end it is (to me) only ego-fights and/or fights for status. As I said I'm not interested in those. So I did not want to get drawn in those long back-and-forth which are not value adding. So these exchanges end up being lose-lose to me. However, here it was interesting to see Lucio continue the conversation. So I learned from him about continuing to use rational arguments and after having tried say: "Let's agree to disagree". I read the lesson today in PU. So it's a great progression in terms of escalation.

So I think I could have gone one argument further as he did before calling it as in "I did my best" as Lucio did. So I quit too early here.

And as I said I could have been more assertive.

When I repeated what I had heard:

"you think that morality is a social construct"

I could have also said my side:

"and I think it's not. Let's agree to disagree".

This would have been more self-respectful to my own thinking and for having started the conversation. If I quit too early it's like the example of the leader who did not react when the mug is thrown. Yes not stay stuck in an endless debate but push it to a reasonable advancement and if no dialogue can be achieved to stop it here.

Roberto and Power Duck have reacted to this post.

#3 · August 8, 2023, 11:26 pm

Hello John

I think it's a good idea to try this out and I will be happy to participate as well.

The only thing I disagree with you on is: "However, I experiment with the short-term loss of status (I'll probably look dumb) with the long-term gain of learning."

I personally don't think you, or anyone for that matter, looks dumb or loses status if one can admit "mistakes" and is wanting to improve on them. Especially not on a forum like TPM.

Have a nice day

John Freeman and Power Duck have reacted to this post.

#4 · August 8, 2023, 11:50 pm

Hello Roberto I had a doubt it’s now cleared thanks for your kind message.

You too

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#5 · August 9, 2023, 11:04 am

Quote from John Freeman on August 9, 2023, 11:04 am
Quote from John Freeman on August 8, 2023, 1:41 pm
Hello Emily,
I think we already spoke about it sometimes in the past. Not implying anything here.
I mean that it really sucks to feel like being stuck.
Here it’s ok I do my best to empathize relate and normalize.
The hard part is changing the situation. I think it is about having a dream then having a plan and then going to work on it like our lives depended on it. It actually does.
In truth it’s up to you. In knowing what you want and if you don’t, to look for it.
here my goal is to define the problem so far so good.
I found that for me if I don’t have a dream life does not have the same appeal. I get bored/dissatisfied. But when I pursue my dream I feel like I’m on fire.
here I start talking about me. Not sure it’s helpful to Emily. I could have stayed on her question to add value. My goal was to express that I encounter the same problem. The problem is that it sounds like “I know better”.
It’s about believing in yourself that you can make that change. All this determination you mustered to get here it’s about finding ways to build it again and channel it in this life change.
Lucio talks about “unwavering belief” that’s what I’m focusing on and recommend cultivating.
again talks about me and also give unrequested advice.
“I’m going to change my life no matter what. I’m going to find what I love to do. I’m going to find great supervisors and colleagues. I’m going to have a great salary and good work life balance.”
Or any variation of it. The more accurate the better as you’re giving instructions to your subconscious.
here it’s too much of a teacher’s frame.
Then you repeat it over and over and over again. In your head or out loud. You put pictures of your dream on your walls. You brainstorm a plan. You ask other people how they found it or what they think about your plan.
You fight with every ounce of energy to overcome the inertia of your current life situation. There is no other way. Fighting for our lives and its improvement. No one is going to do it for us. I know that you know it. The trick is dogged perseverance until we break through to a new life situation or new mindset or anything else.
Going on YouTube looking for videos on the topic. Listening to audiobooks. Searching on Amazon. Anything until we break through.
Here my goal was to inspire. It’s fine on a 1-on-1 setting. In public it is a bit disempowering as Emily probably already thought about this. My goal was to go in coaching mode. The problem is that for this to work there must be a back and forth that a forum is not ideal for. Also when coaching one does actually ask more questions. So it’s more of the Socratic maïeutic that I failed to apply here.
I am in the same situation. So I’m back to a sort of monk mode. I’m focussing my energy on changing my beliefs, mindsets and habits.
again talking about me
So it’s about channeling our inner warrior. And then we go and we go and we go. Until we reach our goals.
”Not giving up is the precursor to success”
You posting here means that you want to change. Now it’s about going to the next step: I must fucking change. No matter what.
I also wanted to inspire and motivate but it falls flat if the person did not really express the desire for emotional support. Again works better in a 1-to-1 back and forth in real life that on a forum.
All in all a bit disempowering since despite my best effort I came a bit too much from “above”. So here questions and listening would have helped more than prescribing and trying to inspire.
So my apologies Emily for the clumsiness of my communication. Not my intention.

Quote from John Freeman on August 8, 2023, 1:41 pm
Hello Emily,
I think we already spoke about it sometimes in the past. Not implying anything here.
I mean that it really sucks to feel like being stuck.

Here it’s ok I do my best to empathize relate and normalize.

The hard part is changing the situation. I think it is about having a dream then having a plan and then going to work on it like our lives depended on it. It actually does.
In truth it’s up to you. In knowing what you want and if you don’t, to look for it.

here my goal is to define the problem so far so good.

I found that for me if I don’t have a dream life does not have the same appeal. I get bored/dissatisfied. But when I pursue my dream I feel like I’m on fire.

here I start talking about me. Not sure it’s helpful to Emily. I could have stayed on her question to add value. My goal was to express that I encounter the same problem. The problem is that it sounds like “I know better”.

It’s about believing in yourself that you can make that change. All this determination you mustered to get here it’s about finding ways to build it again and channel it in this life change.
Lucio talks about “unwavering belief” that’s what I’m focusing on and recommend cultivating.

again talks about me and also give unrequested advice.

“I’m going to change my life no matter what. I’m going to find what I love to do. I’m going to find great supervisors and colleagues. I’m going to have a great salary and good work life balance.”
Or any variation of it. The more accurate the better as you’re giving instructions to your subconscious.

here it’s too much of a teacher’s frame.

Then you repeat it over and over and over again. In your head or out loud. You put pictures of your dream on your walls. You brainstorm a plan. You ask other people how they found it or what they think about your plan.
You fight with every ounce of energy to overcome the inertia of your current life situation. There is no other way. Fighting for our lives and its improvement. No one is going to do it for us. I know that you know it. The trick is dogged perseverance until we break through to a new life situation or new mindset or anything else.
Going on YouTube looking for videos on the topic. Listening to audiobooks. Searching on Amazon. Anything until we break through.

Here my goal was to inspire. It’s fine on a 1-on-1 setting. In public it is a bit disempowering as Emily probably already thought about this. My goal was to go in coaching mode. The problem is that for this to work there must be a back and forth that a forum is not ideal for. Also when coaching one does actually ask more questions. So it’s more of the Socratic maïeutic that I failed to apply here.

I am in the same situation. So I’m back to a sort of monk mode. I’m focussing my energy on changing my beliefs, mindsets and habits.

again talking about me

So it’s about channeling our inner warrior. And then we go and we go and we go. Until we reach our goals.
”Not giving up is the precursor to success”
You posting here means that you want to change. Now it’s about going to the next step: I must fucking change. No matter what.

I also wanted to inspire and motivate but it falls flat if the person did not really express the desire for emotional support. Again works better in a 1-to-1 back and forth in real life that on a forum.

All in all a bit disempowering since despite my best effort I came a bit too much from “above”. So here questions and listening would have helped more than prescribing and trying to inspire.

So my apologies Emily for the clumsiness of my communication. Not my intention.

#6 · August 9, 2023, 4:32 pm

Hello

I think this was my second post on the forum some time ago:

https://thepowermoves.com/forum/topic/adapting-to-life-changes/

In this post I think I managed to make several mistakes at the same time.

1) I have had a theory that I have simply tried to confirm. That is, I did not consider any other option and ignored contradictory facts.

2) I pretended to be 100% right and a genius in social dynamics. For example look at my ending of the post: "What are your experiences/additions in relation to what I said above?"

3) Coupled with my introduction one can (rightfully) assume that I am rather narcissistically inclined.

All this combined has probably cost me a lot of initial goodwill that is generally shown towards new members. Thus, in the end, I have only harmed myself, since my goal was to exchange with the members on the forum.

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#7 · August 9, 2023, 6:24 pm

Hello Roberto,

Cool that you're up for self-criticism.

I don't know how other feels. On my side I felt your communication was appropriate. The way we portray ourselves is often very personal. I think everyone understands that. On my side it gave me the impression of someone who's very sure of himself. So it can give the impression of arrogance I believe. So maybe something to be aware of.

Talking about machiavellianism made me be a bit cautious at the beginning but I changed my mind after we exchanged in the thread which proved to be quite value-adding about machiavellianism. If this is one of your strong point I think the TPM community could benefit a lot from your insights on this topic.

I don't think this cost you any goodwill. Building relationships with forum members is done through writing and answering with value-adding in mind. That's it. Like any other social exchange in my opinion.

If your self-criticism helps you to improve your communication all the better. For me I did not see any major issue.

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#8 · August 9, 2023, 7:31 pm

Quote from Roberto on August 9, 2023, 4:32 pm
Hello
I think this was my second post on the forum some time ago:
https://thepowermoves.com/forum/topic/adapting-to-life-changes/
In this post I think I managed to make several mistakes at the same time.
1) I have had a theory that I have simply tried to confirm. That is, I did not consider any other option and ignored contradictory facts.
2) I pretended to be 100% right and a genius in social dynamics. For example look at my ending of the post: "What are your experiences/additions in relation to what I said above?"
3) Coupled with my introduction one can (rightfully) assume that I am rather narcissistically inclined.
All this combined has probably cost me a lot of initial goodwill that is generally shown towards new members. Thus, in the end, I have only harmed myself, since my goal was to exchange with the members on the forum.

Hello Roberto,

Funny enough, recently had a coaching call where the person also wanted to discuss some forum dynamics and what were some "not so good" moves on the forum including some "not so good" early messages/intro.

Nobody mentioned you there :)

As a very personal opinion type of feedback, I think your self-criticism is valid in the sense that if one does present one single experience or a personal opinion as a fact, it can rub some people off -there was a user who did this several times and it put me off-.
But I think your message only has a liiittle tiny bit of that, so really very small stuff and nothing major.

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#9 · August 9, 2023, 7:54 pm

Since we're in self-criticism:

-there was a user who did this several times and it put me off-.

If that was me I'm happy to know it to improve my communication. Otherwise cool as well.

(Actually would fit in feed-backs: too late I cannot delete the post).

#10 · August 9, 2023, 9:47 pm

Thanks Lucio. I now remember I already did this mistake in the past. I'll remember now.

This is bad as it is thread-expanding on having forgotten that I made this mistake in the past. I could have not mentionned it a) in order not to thread-expand b) people could have forgotten.

I'll remember now.

I wanted to express that this time I got it. What's bad is that it's too much of a parent-child dynamics. So too submissive here.

Better:

Thanks Lucio. I remember now we talked about it sometime in the past.

No mention of mistake and no submission.

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