(Social Blunder + Recovery) Don't frame your friends negatively: it's value-taking and you force them to deny and attack back
An interesting case study on not framing your friends and allies in a bad light.
Plus, the recovery:
Charlie: after one day they will have the same impressions. Months later dating Charlie and Ben there will be very different impressions. When someone breaks up with me, we tend to remain in contact or at least friendly. When someone breaks up with you, it's like scorched earth, Bein ruined...
Ben: not in the last six years (totally denies everything Charlie said)
Charlie: but, ah.... (realizes he's made a bad mistake, now isn't sure where to go: if he insists, he confirms a highly negative frame of his friend. If he backtracks, it looks like he made up the whole thing)
(...)
Ben: so did Jess (:D Ben is in hitting back mode now. Brings up a former Charlie's GF to break Charlie's frame that his relationships are far more honest)
(...)
They're talking about dating casual or as boyfriends here.
And Charlie makes a great point: what you say is important, but how you act later on is even more important.
After having watched several of their episodes, I tend to think (but I might be totally wrong!) Charlie might be right: Ben acts like a boyfriend even though he doesn't want a relationship.
But Charlie went the wrong way to express that: he framed Ben way too poorly. Ben is almost forced to either deny, or to find exceptions. If he doesn't, he gets framed as a heartbreaker.
Since they both care about honesty and not adding grief into the world, that is a very bad frame within their relationship and value system.
Generally speaking, some people might not deny or attack back of course, especially if you're telling the truth.
But they'll be mortified, they see you less as a friend, and you lose social capital.
Recovery:
Charlie: Jess was the anomaly. If you disagree let me know, but... (bingo, this is proper social skills now: he impowers Ben to have a say in the frame, rather than being imposed from the outside)
After Charlie takes the step to power-protect Ben and lets him share his own narrative, then Ben shares the truth that, indeed, at least partially confirms Charlie's story.
When Charlie imposed a negative frame on Ben could Ben having molded that frame as positive be better than denying it?
Charlie: after one day they will have the same impressions. Months later dating Charlie and Ben there will be very different impressions. When someone breaks up with me, we tend to remain in contact or at least friendly. When someone breaks up with you, it's like scorched earth, Bein ruined...
Ben: I guess that women get easily attached to me more than you maybe because I am more memorable.
If Charlie had then attacked Ben's frame as to women get attached to him easily because he takes them more out on dates and does boyfriend things, Ben could have then denied it or questioned back Charlie to make it seem like Charlie is lying and acting defensive when told that women don't get attached to him.
I actually feel like Charlie later in the video again tried to one up Ben when he said that people continue to see him despite not doing boyfriend things because he is fun, cool to hang out with....(Indirectly implying Charlie is more fun than Ben)
Quote from Growfast on August 19, 2021, 6:47 pmCharlie: after one day they will have the same impressions. Months later dating Charlie and Ben there will be very different impressions. When someone breaks up with me, we tend to remain in contact or at least friendly. When someone breaks up with you, it's like scorched earth, Bein ruined...
Ben: I guess that women get easily attached to me more than you maybe because I am more memorable.
Not good in my opinion.
Too obvious, too abrupt, too confrontational.
He'd have let himself be dragged down to turkey-level game playing.
Remember that they are friends.
Because a friend of yours makes a mistake doesn't mean you need to assault him.
And not just "because you want to be kind", but also because it just looks petty of you to get so easily worked up. And it looks overly vindictive. People don't like touchy and overly vindictive folks -so you'd lose even more-.
There are more tactful ways to handle it.
One of which, is what Ben did.
I believe Ben actually reacted well.
Which why I love these examples: since these guys are good, they provide both mistakes, great reactions, and good corrections.
Ben assertively denied the frame, provided examples of the contrary, and sounded convinced and self-assured.