Stopping a smart Alec shaming you with detail

Quote from Ali Scarlett on April 24, 2021, 4:45 am

Hi Transitioned,

Hope you're doing well mate :).

Yea, workplace power dynamics are certainly lower on my list of strengths, but I think I know enough to offer my thoughts.

Transitioned: "...my primary role is running as stand in for my boss the project manager."

Based on what you said here, it sounds like your position in the team is slightly above Natalie's. So, it seems like you're team members, yet you're also closer to being the leader of the team. Of course, you can correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Transitioned: "Unfortunately she's very good and has much more experience in this industry than me."

Very good at what exactly?

If you're saying she's very good at customer content already, then that changes how you might respond to the situation she's created.

However, if you're saying she's good at her job/primary role that's unrelated to customer content, that might also affect the advice members give on your situation in this thread.

You mentioned, "...we have veterans in the team..." and didn't mention she's one of those veterans. So, it sounds like you're saying she's simply really good at what she does outside of CC, but I don't want to jump to conclusions or make assumptions here. So, if you could provide some clarification, Transitioned, that would help.

Transitioned: "Of course, we've been pretending to be nice to each other."

Perhaps, if you set a collaborative frame while assertively drawing your boundaries, you can remove the frenemy nature of the relationship (as well as any passive-aggression) and create genuine warmth towards each other.

Here's what I mean:

Natalie: (in front of his boss) "Hey Transitioned, how's it going learning customer content?"

Transitioned: "Hey Natalie, (frame surfacing via calibrated question) what makes you ask?"

Natalie: "I'm going to have a lot of questions for you on customer content."

Transitioned: (in a lower voice) "Hey Natalie, can we talk to the side?"

Natalie: "Okay?"

Transitioned: "Look, (validates feelings) I'm glad you're eager to learn more about customer content. (sets positive, collaborative frame) It shows how commited you are to the team and, more than me, we all appreciate that. The problem is, (assertiveness DESOE framework "D": describe) when you ask me questions about customer content in front of our boss, (assertiveness DESOE framework "E": express) I don't appreciate that. So, in the future, (assertiveness DESOE framework "S": specific) please ask me your CC questions privately and (assertiveness DESOE framework "O": outcome) I think we'll get along better."

Another thing I want to note here is that it feels like what she's doing is tasking. Tasking you with helping her understand customer content. And, it seems like you read that dynamic.

A question here or there is exactly that, a question here or there. But, when she says, "I'm going to have a lot of questions for you," it feels like a commitment.

Your idea would fall under the "assertiveness 'no' technique: point them in a different direction". And, I think that would work really well.

Another option would be to address the situation with:

Natalie: (in front of his boss) "Hey Transitioned, how's it going learning customer content?"

Transitioned: (says non-committally) "Good."

Natalie: "Great, I'm going to have a lot of questions for you on customer content."

Transitioned: "Great, (assertiveness "no" technique: say "yes" to your priorites) I'm pretty busy with some other priorities here, so (assertiveness "no" technique: helper of last resort) do your best to get some answers on your own, and if you truly can’t figure one or two out, then get back to me and I’ll see if I can help."

Transitioned, if you assertively draw your boundaries do you think she would respect them?

Quote from Transitioned on April 24, 2021, 5:02 am

Thanks heaps Ali.

Bit more context:

Ali - Very good at what exactly?

She's a very good analyst - knows how products and communications and the data come together.  She also is across processes the lodgements side (the larger team) and content creation (our team).  She will learn our processes very quickly.

The team setup's a bit more complicated.  We're a content development team embedded in a larger logistics team that gets out communications runs to thousands of clients under different branded products.  The big boss is above both teams.  When Natalie started they were saying there wasn't any work in logistics and she would do some work in content development.  So she probably thinks our team is her lifeboat and the work is a bit more interesting.  She's a total dominant personality so I think once pointed in a direction its no retreat no surrender win at all cost.

My experience of dominants in the past is that they only see general peace offerings as a sign of weakness.  However I think your idea of offering the hand on the questions is great.  So how about sending her this email?

Hi Natalie

Sorry I didn't have much time to chat on Friday arvo getting a couple of things sorted before Bob (my boss) went on leave..  I think its great you're learning the content development side.  Re fielding questions, we've got a pretty busy week on and I'm going to have some other priorities.  But we'll definitely make sure you get support. 

Seniors are always very smart people so have a go at working things out and if you've got one or two left over email them to me so we don't double up asking questions of the experienced guys.   We basically came on board at the same time so it will be fun learning together and swapping notes when the work allows.   We've got some new letters so if would be good for the team to have a  chat on requirements and data.  I'll setup a placeholder meeting with the guys for the end of the week.  And if the work's on track then we can have a round table Q&A.  

Thanks

T

 

 

 

 

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on April 24, 2021, 8:03 pm

What a power mover that Natalie.

Natalie: great I m going to have a lot of questions for you on customer content

That's not just to set herself up as more knowledgeable, but also to set (or confirm/strengthen) the frame of her as your superior / boss / manager / tester.

If she's not officially above you, it's a rather disempowering frame for you, even babying somewhat, as it frames you as the one who has to learn and has to prove his knowledge to her.
It's usually a good idea to react right away at a sentence like that.

For example:

Natalie: great I m going to have a lot of questions for you on customer content
You: What are you, testing me Natalie? (surfaces the power move, slightly going meta)

If she answers anything similar to "no", she's backtracking, good.

If she answers "yes", it's also good, and you go:

You: What are you, testing me Natalie? (surfaces the power move, slightly going meta)
Natalie: Yes, I want to make sure you're progressing
You: I'm always eager to learn so I'll take your help for sure, but please let's drop the testing thing, (there are no schoolboys here and) we're all professionals here

Something like that:

1. surface her nasty power move
2. refuse it
3. set a more collaborative / learning among equals frame

That requires some power and confidence, not sure you're at that stage right now.
Otherwise, you can simply draw some attention to it so it's not to easy for her:

Natalie: great I m going to have a lot of questions for you on customer content
You: You've got like a test ready or something (surfaces the power move, slightly going meta)

Then make some comments/jokes about "tests".
Not as assertive / powerful as the one before, but it still communicates that you understand the power dynamics at play, that you don't appreciate, and that you're not the easiest target to fuck with.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on April 24, 2021, 8:09 pm

Of course, it's also possible she says "no" without backtracking.

For example:

You: What are you, testing me Natalie?
Natalie: Not really, but I want to make sure

In which case, you continue surfacing as the covert attack that it really is:

Natalie: Not really, but I want to make sure
You: That's great. The thing is, try to see it from my point of view. When you say that, it makes it sound like I'm not self-motivated to learn on my own, and that you need to check on me. See my point? That's quite disempowering, might even be offensive, to be honest, I'm a professional here and I take the learning and executing seriously

It's important here that you then turn it collaborative again, you don't want to make an open enemy, or seem like you're being confrontational.

So you want to end with something like:

"great, great, just wanted to make that sure, you're a world-class professional, there is a ton to learn from you, and I am grateful for that opportunity and for anything you can help me with".

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on April 24, 2021, 8:12 pm

Correction:

I started to reply addressing the one power move first, and then realized that her question was not to test you, but to get information from you.

Ignore the first two for this specific situation, but I'm going to leave them there because they're good strategies for professor frames / babying power moves.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on April 24, 2021, 8:27 pm

What Ali said on the first one is gold:

Natalie: Hey Kevin, how's it going learning customer content?
You: Making good progress, is there a specific reason why you're asking?

Small detail, but it's crucial!

Why?

Because you go from simply answering, to taking the lead.

You're not just a passive answerer, you're now a guy who wants to know what's up, so he can take it from there.

It's about general attitude as well, as you send the message that people either ask you something for a reason, or they shouldn't bother you with nonsense.

Now whatever she replies, you got it.
Keep on making sure it's on your terms.

For example:

Natalie: I'm going to have a lot of questions for you on customer content.
You: Happy to help (high-power collaborative, rather ignoring: much better!), let's talk properly about that one later (ie.: no time-wasting with half-assed BS, I do things properly), I can set you up with one of our experienced people here (very leader-like, you're giving out resources), or I might even find sometime myself (still collaborative, but notice the power move "even", as if to say "time with me is precious, I'd be doing you a favor). Send me an email any time or catch me later ("catch me later" = now I'm focused on something, talk to me during break, when walking around, or when )

Later, you can also stop by her first, so you show yourself as very helpful, team-player, and proactive.

The answer you proposed is also solid.
With these little modifiers -asking why she's asking and taking the lead-, rather than getting a draw, you can turn it into a win for you.

Quote from Transitioned on April 25, 2021, 12:33 am

Thanks I m going to burn those into reflex.

Given its already happened.  Do I send the email?

Boss is on leave Monday.  Probably better to just mention it as a tiny detail on his return rather than CC him. If I copy him it could look like escalation or asking him to fight my battles.

Also @Lucio what s your take on pulling her aside and saying it wasn't appreciated?

I could do it on zoom so I can record as a bit of protection

Sometimes the horse might really have bolted and no recovery is possible.

We ve got a lot of recovering innocents here (myself included) who probably aren't going to react correctly in the heat of the moment but can write a good email or can execute a pre-planned  counter move.

So I think it's really useful if we discuss tactics for recovering.

 

 

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on April 25, 2021, 2:29 am

If all that happened was that exchange, it's not a huge loss and I wouldn't address it anymore.

It's not as much about one-offs, but more about the general tone of your exchanges over time.
Those determine who ends up higher in the hierarchy, and eventually retained, or promoted.

And for when it comes to pulling people aside, it's OK, but:

1. Better if it's a bigger thing: It should be a bigger thing, this was small-ish and too covert to pull her aside, I wouldn't necessarily advise it for this case
2. Better addressing it in real-time and publicly; Working on your general attitude, power moves and frame control and executing in real-time is superior to pulling people aside

The risks of pulling aside are that there might no upsides, such as you won't get anywhere and there won't be any behavioral change, while there might be downsides.
Namely, you might further sour the relationship, and you "warn" her that you're in competition mode. Then, she will be even more cautious and Machiavellian. Unless you got a clear reason and goal for pulling aside, it might be better not to give her that warning.

Don't signal to her that you see her as a threat and competition, let her and everyone else know that you're simply a professional, doing a good job, and not to be fucked with.
It's also a better approach for your own self-esteem and self-image, it's a better path for raising with the eagles.

As a matter of fact, you might also want to be watchful that she doesn't start looming too large in your thoughts.
Train with her, plan and strategize, but always remind yourself that it's part of a larger strategy of you delivering value.

Quote from Transitioned on April 25, 2021, 2:50 am

Thanks Lucio great advice on the mindset and calibrating response.

I think a lot of time these people win because they thrive on conflict and it disrupts win win oriented souls.  Similar to your run in with the overbearing AirBnB lady.  Lots of micro aggressions that can end up taking up headspace.