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Strategies for Counteracting Female Power Moves
Hey Lucio, I've been going through the basics of Power Moves again, with a focus on seduction and male-female power dynamics, and comparing these with my experiences. I'm doing this because quarantine is about to be lifted for me, and I'm about to go back into the fire again. I've been weighing my advantages and drawbacks, installing beneficial beliefs and diminishing destructive ones, and formulating new strategies for when I enter the field again.
Advantages and disadvantages - I've always had a lot of raw attraction ability for drawing attention and attraction from women, including very attractive, feminine and in general high-quality ones and in mass, especially by playing up looks, projecting my energy and inner confidence and (more recently) demonstrating my masculine energy through the lens of pursuing my purpose. My weaknesses were (and to an extent are) naivete/unawareness of power dynamics (lessened by studying your course), actually talking to them and going through the seduction process, and that a lot of women - especially the ones most attracted to me - would play all sorts of games with me.
I intend to counteract these games. Where possible, coming from a mutually beneficial frame while cultivating and demonstrating value of course - but I want to make sure that I am in control as much as possible, even before the first word. My defensive strategies are to reduce dependency by being on my purpose and developing a more resilient mindset, cultivating situational and internal awareness to recognize a game in progress and expunge the effects of manipulation on myself, remaining mobile in both body and thought so I don't get pinned down, and of course, studying power moves so that I can dismantle their games and counter with my own offensive games.
If she's playing power games, my offensive strategies are to show that my activities (such as fitness, going on adventures, challenging myself and overall enjoying life and my senses) are more important than them, triangulation by flirting with other girls, pressure flipping/taking judge role (my usual go-to for shit tests and other power moves), and if they go to the level of outright disrespect, cruelty and/or abuse, full-blown psychological warfare. Of course, that last one was from a less mature place, and I would probably just contemptuously ignore such women today.
Despite all my talk of defense and offense, I do want a mutually beneficial relationship, and I am taking action to grow as a man and overall human being and develop value as well. I would never ask without giving in return. I don't want war, I've had more than my share of it (probably because I'm stubborn and defiant and refuse to be played at any cost), and to be honest, it gets stale after a while. But I faced a lot of manipulators as well, and I know I will face more and that I need to be ready. It's not the healthiest mindset honestly, and I know I can do better but I don't know how. I'd truly welcome any insight you have, because believe me, I do want to make a positive impact on the women I engage with. Thanks for your time Lucio and have a great day :)
Hey Kieth!
Awesome about the quarantine end, man.
I remember the first day I walked outside in freedom, there was an uphill road ahead of me, and I just started running on, like a dog freed of a cage :D
About your message, there are several threads there.
But overall, it seems like you're in a very good spot, with a good idea on what to work on, and with the mind focused on the right goals. Maybe slightly towards the confrontational side, but going in the right direction.
On triangulating / showing her you got more important things
Playing games back is all in the beginning if she's playing games herself.
It's also good to engage in power games and one-upping as it will help you learn those games.
Eventually, you want to switch towards something more collaborative though.
It's possible to reach the end of the seduction after a string of arm wrestlings, but the chances of something taking a bad turn increase.
The risk of "winning" those battles is also that you will good too far. It might sour the relationship, or if you triangulate too well, she might think: "oh, he's not really interested in me".
It's also possible that she will start a contest of "who needs the other the least", and then she might spurn you just to "show you" -even if she might have liked you otherwise-.
The longer that one-upmanship goes, the easier it is something will take a turn for the worst.
It's more efficient to date with you leading, and her following your leadership within a less confrontational and more collaborative framework.
When she's playing games, I usually prefer one of the following:
- Play the same back, but aim at having a quick and decisive victory, then turn things around
- Refuse to play the game, shame her for going down that road (if she bites, you're already the leader, and now within a much better frame. There are some examples in the course)
Being Ready for Manipulations
Fearing manipulations can be a good thing. Especially if it's a phase.
I had the same attitude, for a long time -and in part, still have it-.
I hated being taken for fool.
So much so that my main worry for the dates I was going to revolved around paying for those dates. I hated the idea that some women might "take advantage of me" (and once led to a crazy situation where I paid only half of the bill, the woman didn't have a credit card, and had to call her friends).
That's not the best attitude because you likely end up seeing more threats than there are actually are. And you might miss some opportunities. Plus, it might make you less natural and charismatic on those dates if you're focusing too much on potential threats, instead of being in the moment.
BUT, it's a great attitude to analyze situations and interactions more carefully, which in turn leads to more awareness. And that's great.
Then, once you can pick up the cues of manipulation more easily, you can sit back and relax.
Hey Lucio! Glad to hear about it ending by you too. It feels good to get out there again, push some limits and explore new places. Feels good to be alive again.
I agree, I'm looking to move into a more collaborative frame in the long run. My initial goal is to cultivate and demonstrate value, than come from a position of strength and awareness of games, and than add warmth on top of that. I definitely lost more than a few potential mates by going too far and treating it as full-scale war; I would often gain attraction from displaying dominance and boundaries but create bad blood overall and/or fail to deescalate after. Learning how power dynamics work is relaxing, it means I can be more aware and at the same time choose more nuanced options than fold, retreat or go nuclear, while Ultimate Power's exercises help create a healthier mindset and better ways of handling destructive emotions.
My longer-term aim is to enter a relationship from a position of strength and mutual benefit, but right now I'm focusing on the basics like starting conversations in general, projecting a strong frame before going outside and being aware of my surroundings. The first step I'm taking is to passively radiate value by looking as good as I can (both for sex appeal and the Halo Effect) and showing positive qualities such as passion, confidence and strength while pursuing my purpose. Than actively be aware of games, making sure not to over-invest or take without giving back, controlling my attention while looking to get to know people, and in general remain aware and present in the moment. A bit intimidating honestly, but I'll get it.
Handling women games will be tougher. It'll take time, and I'll make mistakes, but I know I can learn. It looks like it's about balancing a lot of things - escalating while showing less need, setting boundaries without either going too far or being too kind, placing and holding a frame while maintaining good will, and I'm sure many other things. Subtlety and nuance was never my strong suit, or conversation for that matter; my strength was always bold and direct action, performing and stuff that affected groups instead of individuals. I understand war, but smaller spars and half conflict/half cooperation is difficult for me. I get why seduction is called a dance. It's quite dizzying honestly, but doable. It'll just take time, and mastering basics first.
Yeah, you said, it's a balancing act, and the ability to adapt as well.
Bold and direct action is a good level already, it can get you enough wins by itself.
But you can only get better if you add nuances and subtlety, while still retaining the capacity for boldness when it's called for -in the last part of seduction, when it comes to escalation, bold moves are often exactly what's needed-.
You also increase the range of women you can get along with, when you add more nuance.
Some women might be put off, or even scared off, by too much boldness and directness in the early stages.
Especially non-party, more reserved, less experienced ones. And those need some love, too :).
where going in with some class and delicacy can give you an edge.
That's also why, albeit I like the "alpha male style" approach to seduction -and it's far better than the game-heavy PUA style-, I think it's limiting if you only stick to that one.
Finally, one more thing: to decrease the initial games and hurdles that women can put up, it's always a good idea to make the interaction seem "natural".
Women are more likely to feel in control if it's obvious you are hitting on them. Then if they like you, they will think "let's see you prove it how much you like me, and how good you are".
But when the interaction seems more natural, the power is more balanced.
Yes, the women feeling in control part is exactly my concern, and I ran into that more than a few times. I noticed that the more soft, feminine and overall giving off a relaxed, psychologically secure vibe she is, the better she responds to the 'alpha male style' like you said. It works less well, like you said, on more reserved girls, more masculine/Alpha Female girls or with girls on their guard/giving off angry vibes; I usually don't vibe well with the first and outright collide often with the second and third. I get along well with introverted and feminine types though, the one I can think of recently I went for a firm, showing interest but more undertoned with getting-to-know-you mixed in.
Of course, the 'alpha male style' hinges on having a strong Inner Game first. If your inner image is shaken, that game can go out the window too, which is part of the reason I'm doing mind exercises. I also know more game-playing girls can turn it against me, I often find myself in tug-of-war situations with them. Yes, a more natural, laid-back style can do well. I get the sense in general with girls I need to slow down and focus on them intently. It's tough when I got a mission I want to pursue and when I want to flirt with her, but not compromise my life either.
In general, I want to avoid situations where I'm investing one-sided and she's not giving anything in return. Even if she's interested, I'm not degrading myself, nor giving value where it is not earned yet or putting myself in a submissive position. Going natural will help avoid that situation.
