Please or Register to create posts and topics.

Taker case study: Frenemy steals her job

Hello guys,

today I called a female friend who's a head nurse and with whom we do escape games. She told me she's been laid off.

Situation

She was appointed head nurse of this unnamed service of a small hospital. It's been about a year she's been working there. She was friend with a female colleague nurse A. and they were like BFFs. Actually, I've done many escape games with them. I had detected narcisstic traits in this woman (plays the victim, covert power moves, micro-aggressions) and was keeping my distance with her. My friend P. did not see that. She saw her as victim of men in her relationships and of the nursing team at work. So she did her best to help her, protected her and gave her advice.

During the summer, this A. started to be more distant with my friend P.. A said that it was because of the new relationship she was in. And P. believed her. She thought that it was because she was in love.

Two months ago, A. brought the team together against my friend P. They wrote a letter to her superior and my friend P. got fired.

Guess who's got her job now? That's right, it's in the title: A. got her job.

And of course, what was A. saying the whole time: "I would never like to do your job, it's too boring." And of course what was A. complaining about? Being betrayed by men.

So you see in those people the defense mechanism of projection at play. For ego-protection reasons, they cannot attribute to themselves the bad feelings they have, so they project it onto others. Also, here, there is pure manipulation from the get-go. She portrayed herself as a friend and behaved as an enemy.

It's a story that's hard to believe, but unfortunately this is true. Now, my friend is out of a job. This place was toxic anyway. I worked there, I know. Proof is the previous head nurse got laid off before my friend, for other reasons, but still.

So, as promised, I'm quoting again Lucio:

You know, taking or giving are attitude towards others and towards life.
Sometimes you see it in the smaller things before you see in the bigger things.
Like I can make a joke about you now for example, but am I teasing, or am I making fun of you? Am I laughing with you, or am I laughing at you? Am I making a joke, or I am hiding a personal attack behind a joke?
And today it's a joke, tomorrow it might be something bigger. Maybe they lie to your partner about you cheating, or spread rumors about you to ruin your reputation (John Freeman: or take your job). Because the value-taker is about the attitude.
And I don't need those people.
Do you know what I mean?

She was not mean with my friend in public. But she was criticizing everybody all the time (like my own frenemy). Red flag!
Of course, this woman was more versed in machiavellism than my friend. So this shows how important these skills are. You better bring your A game with these manipulators. Or keep them away.

Wow, thanks for sharing this John!

Really great thread to draw some very important lessons learned.

And of course, what was A. saying the whole time: "I would never like to do your job, it's too boring."

Wow, what a prime manipulator.
She pre-emptively took steps to avoid being framed as a "potential danger", thus lowering her mark's guard.

And of course what was A. complaining about? Being betrayed by men.

Yeah, the rule of thumb:

  • When people complain against a whole class of other people, take it a big red sign.

Something we repeat often on this website with both feminists, and red-pillers.

She was not mean with my friend in public.

That's the more advanced manipulative game.

The more advanced their game, the more you need to pay attention to the smaller signals.

Which is why, in my opinion, the "small red flags" often aren't really "small" after all.

John Freeman has reacted to this post.
John Freeman
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

Yeah, she was an advanced manipulator. That's what I told my friend: most people would have fallen for it. She could improve her machiavellian skills, but still, she was no match.

She f##king stole her job! You see why I want to call these people "thieves"? My friend had something and now she's got nothing. Of course she can recover, but she's in a worse place for finding a job than before being fired.

The more advanced their game, the more you need to pay attention to the smaller signals.

Which is why, in my opinion, the "small red flags" often aren't really "small" after all.

No they're not. As painful as it is to watch my frenemy A. play his little game of "I'm a benevolent leader" on the whatsapp group. I think I made the right decision. Who knows what would have been his next move against me? Better to cut my losses now. It would have been tougher.

Tough lesson for my friend, though. She'll grow from it, but this one hit hard.

I have a question for you guys:

My plan is to make other people aware of takers by using the "taker speech" that I quoted several times already. However, this is a tough game, though. Because what's happening behind the scenes is that these people pre-frame you as a machiavellian and a taker. So when you say this, it's already pre-framed by the other as "he's the traitor/taker".

I could not find it on Youtube, but I'm sure you've already seen these kind of scenes in movies. One is the double and the other is the original. And they both say to henchmen: "Shoot him, he's the traitor" as they're fighting together. It's a classical situation in movies, I'm sure you've seen it.

As my friend told me "Once this happened, my real and close friends told me that they thought she was shady/disingenuous".

I told her: "Well, that's what I thought but I could not tell you at the time. It would not have been ethical as I would have criticized a close friend of yours".

Now that I'm aware of it, I did not play the power move: "I told you so." That is why I told her that most people would have fallen for it. I meant it as I believe it to be true. However, when we feel we are right, we feel a surge of pride in our ego and the common/natural reaction is to want to tell the World how right we were. I abstained from such behavior. So it's doable to be a friend in these situations.

Do you think I could have helped her to prevent this situation?

John: One is the double and the other is the original. And they both say to henchmen: "Shoot him, he's the traitor"

Something like this:

Very good question, John.

I think this might be a case of "helping someone, at the risk of a personal loss".

The risk is:

  1. She thinks the opposite is true
  2. She's closer to her friend
  3. She might (unwittingly) spread the word with your name attached to it

How big those risks really are depend on a lot of factors, depending on your skills in the delivery, as well as to how close you are and how much trust there is as compared to the manipulative friend.

On the other hand, there is also the potential for personal gain in case:

  1. She agrees
  2. Later on agrees
  3. Your prediction turns out to be true (in which case, there is both a tremendous increase of trust as well as admiration for your prescience/people skills)

I think there are ways to mitigate the risk.
For example, throwing out "general warnings", like:

Look, I've been in similar situations, and with similar people. And sometimes who we get close to is not who they seem to be

Without making names, or letting her come up with the name.

Matthew Whitewood has reacted to this post.
Matthew Whitewood
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

Hello Lucio,

thank you very much, this is helpful. I see your post now.

I think there are ways to mitigate the risk.
For example, throwing out "general warnings", like:

Look, I've been in similar situations, and with similar people. And sometimes who we get close to is not who they seem to be

Without making names, or letting her come up with the name.

This is great advice as this is what a friend would do. "I love you and I trust you to trust me. This is what I see. I let you do the thinking (as I trust you), I'm not thinking for you."

It's a positive seed.

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.
Lucio Buffalmano

Yes, exactly, you can drop the seed, test the waters, and what comes back from it also tells you a lot on how to proceed.

 

John Freeman has reacted to this post.
John Freeman
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?
Processing...