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Taking a girl home: Distance from last venue to home and 'buyers remorse'
I read that it's good to change venues (shows dominance, asks her to follow, gives a 'compressed' experience for the girl who in her mind knows you better after being with you in more environments).
But every venue switch carries a risk: if commute time is longer than a few mins, you have a time block to fill where not much is happening and the risk for the girl cooling down is high.
This is even more important when the change is from the last venue to your home. Even if the girl has agreed, if there's a long commute time in public transport the girl may have 'buyers remorse.' More so if she's over 30 and has a lot of societal pressure to not be an 'easy woman.'
How do you deal with this? One easy solution is to only date in venues that are walking distance from your home. But in Berlin during the winter, walking even 10 min in the cold could be the perfect setup for the girl to cool down (sorry about the pun).
Lucio, you have tons of experience in the same city (Berlin). How do you deal with this? What proportion of women cooled down in a venue transition?
Hey LoF,
Considering I'm always moving and don't particularly love cold weather (cold walks were probably more bothersome for me than for the girl lol), you may have more experience with "cold weather dating" than I have actually.
If you have a particular case study in mind, share that.
Otherwise, generally speaking, the "transition" was/is quite a big topic in pick-up/seduction, and for good reasons.
However, it's much more of an issue for night game and night venues than dates.
The transition from loud and high-stimuli venue to quiet walking can indeed be a concern for that "state shift".
And it's even more of a concern for guys who rely more on "high-energy game" and dancefloor seduction.
For example, one of the biggest and most damning state shifts to manage was when taking a girl home from the high-energy Berlin gay parade going from high-energy partying to the empty and quiet streets.
But another girl in the equally crazy techno parade was no issue at all because we sat on a quieter stairway and talked (and then later walked to grab a beer in the Biergarten of... Can't remember the main metro stop of the love parade, Ostkreuz maybe?).
Dates like coffees, dinners, or drinks (as long as you get to know each other) are more like that second case, and the shift is smaller and much more manageable.
I see. Thanks.
Here's the case study. I had a super nice date with a girl I superliked from OKC who blew my mind writing a poem (a poem!) as a first message. We did a beers and dinner date (not my style, but whatever). The bar is 7 min walk from my house. I tried to transition there 'let's dance at my home studio'. She looked at me and said 'next time.' So on a Monday, I had to improvise another location where we could dance Kizomba (fat chance). The one bar that could offer something similar was 20 min by bus. And buses in Berlin are terrible. Just finding the stop was a challenge, google maps was wrong. So a lot of the energy dissipated. We didn't go, she said 'rain check.' And I was feeling low energy too. She had a big drama event at work her former CEO called her current CEO to talk shit about her. So very justified, I'm surprised she even managed to go out. But I think a venue transition with a 20 min bus trip in the middle would kill the mood. U bahn a bit better but still.
She resumed communication and we are up for tomorrow dancing on a big social. Problem is the venue is 30 min by public transport from home. And Kizomba is like the most sensual state, almost hypnotic. If she says 'let's go to your place', cooling down will happen.
My solution: taxi
Thoughts?
Updating this case study as it exemplifies the problem (transitions) really well. Many things are dance-specific (and dancing is barely touched in seduction) so perhaps I'll refactor those out into a different post. Dancing and dating is such a beautifully complex topic!
Prefacing this story: This is an exception, don't think that I do this all the time lol. And still I find Berlin very hard!
I kissed two girls last Thr, both gorgeous, but didn't manage the transition to home. It's a sticking point. One was a date who I 'brought to the dance' (I don't mix dating and dancing, that's bad for the ecosystem and for your reputation). The other one was already at the club but is not part of the dance scene I frequent. I think of social dancing as a social circle so I keep away from dating people in the dancing world (for my dance styles; other are fair game!).
I left the club around 10:30 with #1 (the OKCupid poet), with the intention of taking her home, but she cooled down on the way via public transport. Dancing was the second part of a second date, and we did it for only a bit more than 2 hrs. I had to 'tour' with her all dancing styles to keep it interesting.
The #2 I 'brought' from another dance style, tango. She was already at the venue. I hooked up with her long time ago from tinder, first date ended at home but LMR prevented sex. Now I met her again by chance.
I went back to the club after taking the first girl to her place and failing to transition to my place. I got the 'I want to take it slow' line. This was before I read the SU lessons on how getting a 'no' disempowered you, so I wasn't very calibrated.
I danced with #2 while #1 was somewhere else, and got her in a kissable state on the dancefloor. #1 Arrived in the meantime and was watching us dance. I didn't know that till later, but I (wisely in retrospect) didn't kiss #2 because, well, I came with #1 to the dance. I delivered #2 to the bachata area, did nothing with her, then I danced with #1. Kissed her, danced for a bit, tried the transition home, failed, went back to club, then danced with #2 (which at that point might have been wondering why I didn't kiss her and was probably feeling hurt).
At that point, we danced but I was clearly 'out' in her mind. I did a lot of rapport building, amplified warmth, and we left the venue together. Not without her giving her phone number to another guy so I could see it (small revenge, lol).
We left the club together (a good thing) but she took it as an opportunity to increase domestication efforts. This is boyfriend behavior, after all. Long walk to the metro. She talked a lot, but kind of only complains about her life: another negative notch for me, I was being her emotional tampon forcefully for the entire duration of the walk, and I could not get the frame back to sexual. Add 'I'm tired, I'm hungry' for good measure lol. Body language was not there either. So coming home was not going to happen, this time calibration I think was correct. On the train, I tried a hail Mary. This worked really well because her body language changed a lot. She oriented herself towards me, while my legs were stretched out away from her, and got really close to hear what I was saying. Close enough that this was again her in a kissable state.
me: I have to apologize for something
her: Oh! really?
me: You may have noticed that you were in a kissable state at the dance floor (she nods) and I didn't kiss you. I didn't because I came to the club with a date, and it would have been bad manners to do it. I went back to her, danced with her, and took her home. But there was no chemistry. So I came back to the club to find you.
her: Oh! (tells story about how she cried when a friend called her 'her superhero'). All of this keeping strong eye contact and 'puppy eyes'. Asks something about the date. Justifies herself because she asked something about whether she danced better than the person I came with. Apologizes for something I can't remember
me: Something about kissing. Went for the kiss, she moved away, but only a bit, and ended up kissing. We were at my stop so I had to leave. Didn't try to pull her with me as I don't think I had enough power + warmth at that point.
She keeps in touch and answers texts fast, but I think this woman is just too much effort. I'll leave it at that.
So as you see transitioning to home is a big sticking point, but I think it's mostly because the groundwork before that moment is not done correctly.
Good work developing your bounces and dancing skills a really great guy on these is Skills.
properly-take-women-home-clubs-dates-consistently-sexual-success-v-blog
I prefer lounge game while I'm still developing and avoid bouncing to bars, and clubs, but instead lower vibe areas where I can work my vibe magic, but dancefloor seduction is incredibly fun and can be a great spice to keep you energized...shit if nothing else dancing is fun, sexy, and energy pumping and silly at times
cheers for the report man
@leaderoffun its never an easy one. You're near the touch down line and she knows it so lot of thoughts and feelings going through her mind.
My five cents worth. As usual I defer to the younger guys who are still out there.
As long as you pushed it - all good for next time. Otherwise she might thing you're not keen or manly enough or whatever ladies think and auto-reject. So I wouldn't think failure I'd think 'warming up' process and on next date can escalate faster. Hug and little peck kiss hello. Take the arm when walking etc. You're moving into 'we touch all the time' frame. Also depends on date number most high quality girls won't put out on date 1 for many reasons.
No offense intended - its hard to tell from your post. How would you rate your physical escalation skills - can you make her impatient for the kiss? Can you do one step back two forward. Can you do the 'your not for me' but I'm overcome with love play, etc. I think I actually bought SU but I havent read because I'm wifed up. I'm sure there is great material in there.  On the 0.1% chance there isn't yet on this specific topic, google the DiCarlo escalation ladder - good physical foundation but you'll want to add some emotional spikes.  And please please please remember these are girls not AIs. Enjoy the interaction as a human being, don't worry too much on outcomes. Go on enough dates the randomness of woman's nature will provide the outcomes.
Get laid enough you start to give off the mythical ' good with the ladies' pheromone and everything you try works better. BTW this priming process happens after every break or dry spell.  NFI why this is I just follow the rules.
As long as you pushed it - all good for next time. Otherwise she might thing you're not keen or manly enough or whatever ladies think and auto-reject. So I wouldn't think failure I'd think 'warming up' process and on next date can escalate faster. Hug and little peck kiss hello. Take the arm when walking etc. You're moving into 'we touch all the time' frame. Also depends on date number most high quality girls won't put out on date 1 for many reasons.
Yeah, I'm happy with the results and getting a higher conversion rate at the very top of the funnel is 'good-to-have problems.' I'm from a 'high warmth' culture so touching escalation comes by default. One confounding problem: I'm dating a large range of cultures. #1 was from Taiwan, #2 from Argentina. There's tons of subtle variation in:
- Expectations for 1st and 2nd date sex/kissing (Some ASEAN countries are the worst offenders here, didn't know anything about Taiwan)
- Attitudes towards PDA (kissing on a dance floor or public transport is PDA)
To make it even more difficult, we are all dating outside our culture (we are in Germany, concretely in Berlin which is very different from the rest of DE). There's also 'big city dynamics' which makes it a very unpredictable mix. These are girls with lots of options BUT you will find lots of complains from girls in reddit and blogs saying that Berlin is terrible for dating (for them!). And #1 complained about not liking dating lol.
No offense intended - its hard to tell from your post. How would you rate your physical escalation skills - can you make her impatient for the kiss? Can you do one step back two forward. Can you do the 'your not for me' but I'm overcome with love play, etc. I think I actually bought SU but I havent read because I'm wifed up. I'm sure there is great material in there.  On the 0.1% chance there isn't yet on this specific topic, google the DiCarlo escalation ladder - good physical foundation but you'll want to add some emotional spikes.  And please please please remember these are girls not AIs. Enjoy the interaction as a human being, don't worry too much on outcomes. Go on enough dates the randomness of woman's nature will provide the outcomes.
This is a very good question. I dunno.
I have SU and I'm 26% through it. I've done a full year of a top of the line dating course, with live mentors on video, date recordings analyzed etc. I've put in the time to learn the skill (that was about 2 years ago, then I had a relationship for about a year; so I've lost quite a bit of it as I'm only dating again now). I have plenty of dates where I kiss the girl on day 1 but there's no day 2, so I guess that's not the bottleneck?
I don't do too much push and pull. I know DiCarlo escalation ladder, but this is also VERY culture dependent. German women and touching: different from say Spanish women. Dancing context: physical touch taken to the n-th power, and it doesn't mean shit, it's part of the context.
Get laid enough you start to give off the mythical ' good with the ladies' pheromone and everything you try works better. BTW this priming process happens after every break or dry spell.  NFI why this is I just follow the rules.
I have problems with this. I don't want to be labeled as a player (but perhaps I should reconsider)? Last girl I had sex with, last week, was 26, I'm 48. But I'm very careful not to 'fuck around' in my social circles. It's impossible to know what reputation I have (which may explain the problem here!). But if anything it could be in the player direction more than the other way; though I don't see myself like one, and I do like stable relationships. One problem I see with this lifestyle is that it takes a ton of time managing the calendar, setting and attending dates, following up on text,... even changing the sheets. And I have other things to do. I can get too focused on this, and I hate how for example texts hog your attention because they are time sensitive. If you don't respond with appropriate timing, you can lose a girl. Which makes it very hard to 'get shit done' on things that matter, like expanding the biz. This is why I invest in courses, because any efficiency increase is worth a lot to me. If I could cut the BS in half, I would be super happy. But if I've learned anything is that this skill takes 1-2 years of near daily practice to build up; and you lose it fast if you don't use it...
Honestly it all sounds good. I think you have worked enough on the skills that you will self calibrate and just click  I have dated across half a dozen countries but Berlin sounds like it's a higher league again. I think I m a country guy trying to advise a sophisticate. A lot probably hinges on your motivation. Take complaints about dating with several grains of salt it can be a humble brag or it can just degenerate to a general b1tch session about men.
Do you already have kids? Most women will want one. How you set your rig and bait is going to depend on who your trying to catch.
Thanks Transitioned, you have done PU, what you say makes a lot of sense so FOR SURE think of yourself as a shophisticate, because you are.
Yes I have two kids, and I don't hide it. When we get home, first thing they see is the kid's beds. I don't think I want more, but I could be convinced. Last relationship I was kinda thinking about it. For who I'm trying to catch: so far, looking back, it's kinda women in their prime time (age wise), before they turn sour at above age 33 (I think the red pill guys have a name for it, they hit 'the wall'). I'm very passionate and sensual, and at the same time I'm deeply analytical (lol, as the writeup above shows) so an ideal woman would be someone who can do that switch too. When I only get one side (example the sensual part on my last relationship) I feel unappreciated. Right now I think I'm going to do the 'MLTR plus two FB' config that I had before the relationship, if I can manage. Because having experienced how it is to have one woman as the gatekeeper of sex, I'm not sure I want to be there unless the woman is a demi-goddess. What SU says that monogamy rewards women and punishes (high quality) men is totally true.
We are well OT here so by all means back me off if this is getting too personal. Otherwise let me kick in a few thoughts.
I think big factors are the age of your kids, exclusivity/monogamy or not, if you would be willing to have another kid and how would handle all those interactions.
E.g. if you want to limit interaction a single mum with one kid who s got her sh1t together might fit.
You ve obviously got the smarts and cash to pull a 26 YO. Now if it's fun and games all good, they come they go. Changes if you want an LTR
If you want a 26 YO to overlook the age gap, turn a blind eye to the FBs and put the kids question on ice I m not sure how stable that could be.
And the reality is most guys settle down because as you said, cutting down overhead, and declining energy and tolerance as you get older. Also your dating demographic moves towards 30s over time which is a different game as women are getting short on runway by then.
Not saying you have to settle for average. But it is easier to swim with the tide or at least across instead of against.
