The anti-fragile ego as power against the judge role
Hi everyone!
I'm studying persuasion under John Ullmen, author of Real Influence: Persuade Without Pushing and Gain Without Giving In.
He has a section in his course Influencing Others called "Mindset and Habits for Influence" where he talks about turning objections into action.
When I first read this, I immediately thought it was in reference to sales objections. I dismissed it at first because I thought it was filler content to make the course feel like it had more value than it actually did. (After all, walking away from a failed sales negotiation and having to walk right into another one is more about having the mindset to pick yourself back up after the sale, not really about influencing others into buying during the sale.)
However, as I continued to read, I realized how an anti-fragile ego can help me deal with "the judge role".
Ullmen: "The best influencers [persuaders] don't take it personally when others object and resist, they get motivated. They realize it's normal for others to have different frames and different agendas. They don't avoid objections, but go toward them with an energized exploratory motive to understand them better. They know that objections aren't just obstacles but clues. If your counterpart has objections, the sooner you uncover them, the sooner you will learn what actually can influence the person successfully. Wishing and pushing don't work, both backfire sooner or later."
One problem I had with dealing with the judge role is feeling like the other person is disappointed in me because I messed up somehow. At times I would bend over backward for them, try to make them happy (accept me again), or sometimes go so far as to send long text messages of apology.
One thing that helped me feel less dependent on the approval of others is Ullmen's concept above. I had to understand that it's normal for them to be disappointed sometimes because it would be weird if we always saw eye to eye and always saw the world the exact same way. What makes us unique (and human) is having different frames, ideas, perspectives, and so on.
So, if for example a girl I'm talking to is disappointed in me and suddenly stops texting out of nowhere, I could want her to text me back as the validation I'm still well-accepted or I could remind myself that, "Hey, it's normal for us to have different frames and different agendas. Maybe my frame involves her texting me back right now and hers doesn't. Right now is an opportunity for me to get to know her better so I can figure out what she wants."
I referenced the anti-fragile ego because this approach seems to revolve around the identity of being a learner. (Do correct me if I'm wrong.)
Wanting her to text me back and jumping through hoops to get her to re-accept me is the same as "wishing" for her to do what I want (a losing strategy) but asking myself questions about her frame helps me uncover what she might want and how we can both win (a way to take the situation into my hands and regain control). At that point, it goes from me wanting her to text me because I feel like I messed up to me using her disappointment to learn more about her, what matters to her, and how to better influence her to an outcome we're both satisfied with.
I would really love to hear your thoughts on this, I think it's an interesting method of refusing to take the child role mentally. Do you think it's effective?
It sounds like you're asking in a long, roundabout way 'how do I get her back/interested in me more again?'. The honest answer is you're not going to, at least not where you are right now. The nature of female attraction is to be attracted to men who have power over them in some way, and right now she clearly has power over you. You're asking how to get her approval, you're putting in all this effort (just by looking at this post) while she's putting in little to none for you, and overall you're operating from her frame of winning her over.
It's okay. We were all there at one time or another. I recently caught myself in a severe power-down dynamic myself; I realized I wouldn't get anywhere from that position and so let it go, moved on and took action to make sure this didn't happen again. I recommend the same. Any attempts to negotiate a win-win will be meaningless unless she knows you are in a negotiating position to begin with. This is true of people in general - first power, than the warmth. Yes there are plenty of people who are mutually cooperative but this is clearly not that situation. Cut your losses and move on.
The good thing is you already got what you need. You can learn from this and come back stronger. It sounds like you overinvested before - why? Why the dependency on approval? What weakness is still there that unscrupulous people can use to gain leverage over you? What are you trying to fulfill, and is there a healthier way of doing so? What adaptations can you make, and how are your (unconscious) perceptions not aligned with reality? Take the time to take yourself apart, get some help (even just a friend) if you need to; it's well worth the investment to make a stronger and less exploitable version of yourself.
Another thing I do is think in redundancies. 'If [X] is compromised, what can I fall back on?' 'What avenues can I validate myself by without others' approval?' 'What sources of joy can I consistently call upon?' Examples of fall backs and other sources of validation are having other women or men interested in you to avoid overinvestment, having other hobbies and activities that give pleasure and need investment and having a strong sense of self-love in general. Sources of joy can be being on your purpose, a state of mind you can (re)turn to, spending time with friends and family, living up to an internal metric such as a moral code and turning to something bigger than yourself.
Finally the mindsets, Lucio's Ultimate Power covers much better than I, but a few of my own that help: 'I am a learner.' (like you said), 'Mistakes are an opportunity to learn.' 'Crises are opportunities.', 'Facing challenges leads to growth.' 'I always come back stronger.' 'I thrive under fire.' 'I have an unyielding will to live.' 'When you stop growing, you start dying.' 'Pity the man with no scars.' 'I love pushing myself.' 'I thrive at the limit.' 'I live for the challenge.' Lucio's examples are similar, and they all have a common theme - not only surviving, but thriving under pressure. You can even try some affirmations or subliminals with these, a lot of people find them really helpful.
I know this probably wasn't the answer you were expecting. But believe me, take care of your weaknesses and she won't even be a worry anymore. It'd probably help with your career too 🙂 Good luck to you!
Very interesting thread.
Keith's replie focused on the dating portion of your initial message.
A hard-hitting message, and makes a lot of sense.
This part made me reflect:
Quote from Kellvo on June 9, 2020, 1:51 amThis is true of people in general - first power, than the warmth. Yes there are plenty of people who are mutually cooperative but this is clearly not that situation. Cut your losses and move on.
Both are better, most of the time.
But, if not together, it's true that what you present first will also make a big difference.
The initial research said that warmth is what assess first, but in dating it could indeed be the opposite -exceptions apply, of course, for example approaching a girl at night, you might want to come across as very friendly and unthreatening at first-.
It's an important aspect I haven't addressed yet, and I added it now to the topics I need to review.
More on a general to Ali's initial message:
Quote from Ali Scarlett on June 5, 2020, 9:36 pmOne problem I had with dealing with the judge role is feeling like the other person is disappointed in me because I messed up somehow. At times I would bend over backward for them, try to make them happy (accept me again), or sometimes go so far as to send long text messages of apology.
One thing that helped me feel less dependent on the approval of others is Ullmen's concept above. I had to understand that it's normal for them to be disappointed sometimes because it would be weird if we always saw eye to eye and always saw the world the exact same way. What makes us unique (and human) is having different frames, ideas, perspectives, and so on.
Yeah, you went to the core of what a judge role does: make you feel bad unless you regain their approval, which makes you dependent and gives them tremendous power over you.
And I think that it's a good mindset to "normalize" other people's disapproval or disappointment by reminding yourself that we are all different and it what would be truly strange is if you all got along every time.
This will be more difficult to accomplish with people who matter a lot to you, of course.
And that's also normal: how the people closest to us see is important. The goal is not to not care at all about anyone, but to reduce the power of random people over you, and of people who have not your best interest in mind.
Which is another good reason to be selective about the people whom you accept in your inner circle.
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Good point Lucio! Yeah dating is definitely an arena all it's own; I agree in general though that showing warmth first is a good thing. I'm finding out though that a certain amount of power (even just having a solider positive frame and/or being less needy) goes a long way towards having people respect and being open to warmth more.
On a parallel note, I learned a bit about antifragility in person today. I broke a low floor footstool I was using as a chair (to help my lower back) because I was leaning back against it. I accepted accountability for the mistake, said I'd learn from it and moved on. But than I picked up duct tape for another project and decided to repair the stool too. After the first round of repairs, it worked almost as well as the original but still felt unstable, so I not only continued repairs, but put duct tape in a few places to reinforce the structure and close some gaps. Now when I sit on it, it feels even more solid and stable than before. Time will tell if it lasts, but I found this a most enlightening experience.
Hi Kellvo!
I appreciate your thoughts, they were very insightful.
I think you may have read a little too deep into my comment, the example of me talking with a girl was a completely made up situation to illustrate how the anti-fragile ego would work against the judge role, but I like how you dove into that example to focus on the dating power dynamics. Even though that particular situation was only an example, I think you're right when you say we've all been there :).
Lucio: And I think that it's a good mindset to "normalize" other people's disapproval or disappointment by reminding yourself that we are all different and it what would be truly strange is if you all got along every time
Appreciate the feedback Lucio, I'll be sure to incorporate that into my mindset!