What are we?

Quote from Alex on January 29, 2022, 8:46 pm

Quote from shoaib zaib on January 29, 2022, 2:20 pm

What's up, everyone!

I was out for a long time, But I had some thoughts recently. When I was talking to my female friend,as I had read about 3 main categories of personalities in which obviously Machaivellian is one. We know that these three main categories are fit  in it selves bcoz people who are so, just focused on getting what they want. Here we are different animals we go for a win-win. We know covert moves and more, thus I have been wondering " what are we?"

I'm trying to get an answer of this question by myself and at the same time. I have had to share this with my community, especially with  my mentor " Lucio" .

must share your thoughts

Cheers 🥂, everyone!

Hey Shoaib,

I'm relatively new here so I cannot really speak for the community as a whole.

But at an individual level, I like to compare myself to hackers in the way I'm learning and using human psychology and power intelligence. You have 3 different types of hackers: white hat, grey hat, and black hat.

• The white hats use their knowledge to protect individuals and companies against black hat hackers (they're considered as ethical).
• The grey hats aren't necessarily doing anything illegal or unethical (they still can), but are mainly using their knowledge for their own self-interest (if you want to put them on a moral alignment grid, they would be chaotic neutral).
• The black hat commit crimes and don't care to destroy other people or businesses to gain profit (value-taking).

In terms of game theory, it would be inefficient to only use one strategy (pure strategies), I prefer to use mixed strategies (adapt contextually), so defining my identity around only one strategy would not be very smart.

In other words, I could say that the philosophy of this website that seeks to create win-win and high value relationships is appealing to me, but that I'm not afraid to use my "dark side" to defend myself against value takers. This is only my interpretation, but I think that's also what Lucio had in mind and wanted to teach while creating this website and community.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 29, 2022, 9:17 pm

Shoabib, my mate.

I wasn't sure whether and how to address this -and how to do it in a way that was both tactful and value-adding-.

To do it properly would require a lot of time, so I throw out there something brief hoping that it's better than nothing.

Please arm yourself with an antifragile ego, otherwise, please stop reading right now and come back to it in a year time or so.

---

[spoiler title="do NOT click here unless you have an antifragile ego and growth mindset and are ready to take an emotional hit"]

To put it out there quickly:

I think that this forum and website might be too advanced right now for your level.

You can get there, but thinking that you're already there is not a high-power confident mindset, but a mistake that will harm you and your personal growth first and foremost.

Focus on basics and basic social skills first.

Here are some examples of why:

Quote from shoaib zaib on January 29, 2022, 2:20 pm

3 main categories of personalities in which obviously Machaivellian is one. We know that these three main categories are fit  in it selves bcoz people who are so, just focused on getting what they want. Here we are different animals we go for a win-win. We know covert moves and more, thus I have been wondering " what are we?"

When you say "we know / are" of a different breed, you're self-framing as part of an in-group of more advanced folks.

It's a good approach IF you are at that level indeed, IF you are close to that level, or IF the group is ready to welcome you as "one of them", independently of where you stand.

Otherwise, if you show that some of the basics are lacking, you come across like you're out of your depth without even realizing it.
And you go into a negative hole reputation and status-wise.

Right now, I don't see a good enough grasp of the fundamentals to consider yourself as an advanced player -just as an example, you're referring to the dark triad there, but it's written in a way that betrays a shallow knowledge of them-.

Quote from shoaib zaib on January 29, 2022, 2:20 pm

I'm trying to get an answer of this question by myself and at the same time. I have had to share this with my community, especially with  my mentor " Lucio" .

must share your thoughts

Cheers 🥂, everyone!

A few things to say here, but I will limit myself to two:

• Watch out for covert questions.

Are you sharing, or are you asking?

Because the two are very different.

Asking demands value.
Sharing gives value.

When you mix the two, it feels weird, and potentially even manipulative (social scalping).

Asking begets a "here's your value, give me some thanks for it".

Sharing begets a "thank you for sharing".

And I'm pretty sure you didn't mean it in a manipulative way, so you're hurting yourself here without even any malice.

• Do your work before you come up with big asks

You're asking "what are we".

That's really a big and deep question.

And big questions demand big answers and effort to answer properly.

And demands of big efforts without social capital make you a taker (see the social exchange, a foundational piece of social success).
Just a comparison, Matthew was recently opening several threads that requested my time. But Matthew could get it because he had lots of goodwill from past exchanges and a long history of relating and bonding, plus a shit-ton of social capital because he had given a lot, because he had gone through all the basics steps and because he made himself into someone worth listening to.

You single me out as the guy you want to share with (or answer from?).

Put yourself in my shoes now -but also in the shoes of many guys in the community-.

After I've spent days on end writing the values of TPM, writing pages and posts of "Start Here", talking about "the eagle", the "enlightened individualist", the "enlightened collaborators" who stay away from both cynicism and naivete, and... After perfecting PU over years.

What am I more likely to think when a new guy who hasn't yet taken it upon himself to address the fundamentals comes up with such a big ask?

Am I more likely to think "great, I was really looking forward to spending 3h talking about what we are with a person I've never interacted with before".
Or am I more likely to think "mate, go read all that basics stuff, I've written and published it for a reason, then come back".

[/spoiler]

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 29, 2022, 9:27 pm

Quote from Alex on January 29, 2022, 8:46 pm

Hey Shoaib,

I'm relatively new here so I cannot really speak for the community as a whole.

But at an individual level, I like to compare myself to hackers in the way I'm learning and using human psychology and power intelligence. You have 3 different types of hackers: white hat, grey hat, and black hat.

• The white hats use their knowledge to protect individuals and companies against black hat hackers (they're considered as ethical).
• The grey hats aren't necessarily doing anything illegal or inethical (they still can), but are mainly using their knowledge for their own self-interest (if you want to put them on a moral alignment grid, they would be chaotic neutral).
• The black hat commit crimes and don't care to destroy other people or businesses to gain profit (value-taking).

In terms of game theory, it would be inefficient to only use one strategy (pure strategies), I prefer to use mixed strategies (adapt contextually), so defining my identity around only one strategy would not be very smart.

In other words, I could say that the philosophy of this website that seeks to create win-win and high value relationships is appealing to me, but that I'm not afraid to use my "dark side" to defend myself against value takers. This is only my interpretation, but I think that's also what Lucio had in mind and wanted to teach while creating this website and community.

I'm (happily) eating humble pie here.

I was thinking this post wasn't gonna go anywhere, and instead, I learned hugely thanks to it 🙂

Well, just to be clear, my points and analyses above still stand and are valid, but it's also true that something very positive still came out of it.

You used a new analogy that would work better with the tech / hacker crowd, something that I wasn't personally going to reach or even think of.
And you hit the nail on the head.

Thank you!
And thanks to Shoaib as well for indirectly leading to this.